Are all brokers the same?

By EmbellishAthletics on Mar. 30, 2012

Do brokers provide value or are they just looking for a quick easy $ while providing zero value? There is one on here that does nothing but scan classifieds all over the country and then re-list under their name. They haven't seen the equipment, have no idea what condition it is in or even if it works. When you call them they just shoot you a line of crap. It's doubtful they even know what the equipment is used for.

I can understand someone actually going out and finding equipment and purchasing at a good price for re-sale. The guys who spend the time to inspect and then refurb (if needed) are providing a service. The particular one I ran into simply found a listing on Craigslist and listed it here at a higher price. He knew absolutely nothing about the equipment other than what the owner wrote in the original listing.

What happened to people actually working for their money? BTW....the guys name on here is PaulB. A little research of his postings will reveal much of the same.

Submitted by Gilligan on Fri, 03/30/2012 - 20:38

I will say this, he did not know what an Integrator was when I asked him about an exposure unit it was "listing".

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

Submitted by californiadreamin on Fri, 03/30/2012 - 20:52

EmbellishAthletics wrote:
Do brokers provide value or are they just looking for a quick easy $ while providing zero value? There is one on here that does nothing but scan classifieds all over the country and then re-list under their name. They haven't seen the equipment, have no idea what condition it is in or even if it works. When you call them they just shoot you a line of crap. It's doubtful they even know what the equipment is used for.

I can understand someone actually going out and finding equipment and purchasing at a good price for re-sale. The guys who spend the time to inspect and then refurb (if needed) are providing a service. The particular one I ran into simply found a listing on Craigslist and listed it here at a higher price. He knew absolutely nothing about the equipment other than what the owner wrote in the original listing.

What happened to people actually working for their money? BTW....the guys name on here is PaulB. A little research of his postings will reveal much of the same.

That is a pretty broad brush question!
Like any business, there are some that are good at what they do and
provide good products! And there are those who dont!" There is no such
thing as a free lunch" And you generally get what you pay for. If it sounds
to good to be true, it generally is! If you have the time? Do it yourself!
If you are unsure, buy it new. However there are some really good brokers
that provide a great service. Do Your Homework!
winston

Submitted by Capt-G on Fri, 03/30/2012 - 21:39

EmbellishAthletics wrote:
Do brokers provide value or are they just looking for a quick easy $ while providing zero value? There is one on here that does nothing but scan classifieds all over the country and then re-list under their name. They haven't seen the equipment, have no idea what condition it is in or even if it works. When you call them they just shoot you a line of crap. It's doubtful they even know what the equipment is used for.

I can understand someone actually going out and finding equipment and purchasing at a good price for re-sale. The guys who spend the time to inspect and then refurb (if needed) are providing a service. The particular one I ran into simply found a listing on Craigslist and listed it here at a higher price. He knew absolutely nothing about the equipment other than what the owner wrote in the original listing.

What happened to people actually working for their money? BTW....the guys name on here is PaulB. A little research of his postings will reveal much of the same.

I hate to use the analogy, but imagine the used automobile business. There are basically three types of entities selling used.

1. Brokers who list machines (like cars) who never see the equipment, do not purchase the equipment until sold, and sell with no warranty.

2. Used equipment (car) dealers who may purchase and store the equipment, and sell it as is with possibly a warranty after inspecting it.

3. Used equipment rebuilders (fully restored automobiles) that purchase viable equipment to rebuild to new specifications, and sell with a warranty.

These three catagories will escalate in price, but as stated, usually in this life you get what you pay for. Still less than new.

Investigate, and do your homework.

srimonogramming's picture
Submitted by srimonogramming on Fri, 03/30/2012 - 22:26

I think there are different types/levels of brokers and I'll say I had a good experience dealing with Paul from a sellers point of view. He isn't a traditional broker like some of them but he does provide a service. He's more or less helping a seller move the equipment they are trying to sell. That's what he did for me and I was happy to have some help getting the word out to others who might be interested. He's more of a facilitator and not someone that is going to hold hands, inspect everything, refurb equipment and install like some will do, but you aren't paying him to do all that either. I have no clue if Paul knows a lot about the equipment that he's helping to move, but in my situation, I dealt with the customer as well as Paul, but he basically put me in touch with someone to buy my stuff that I was not able to do by myself.

I'm not trying to take up for the guy, just explaining that his service was more for the seller in our instance and I was happy to have the help. If you buy a $50 steak and get a $5 steak then yeah, I'd be mad, but if you buy a $5 steak and get a $5 steak then can you really be upset that you're eating a $5 steak? If Paul is trying to charge a premium price for a bargain service then I can see why someone would be upset, but that isn't what he did with me so I'm saying this because he treated me and the customer I sold to the right way. Unfortunately I can't say that about every deal he's done because I don't have inside working knowledge of his business and it's his to make sure he does things the right way or he will have to find another occupation.

I think that there is a place for that service if the seller is willing to give a cut or work out the deal with Paul pryor. I will agree that Paul will need to learn as much as he can about what he is selling or it will come back to bite him. I've talked to him enough to know that he does not want to follow in the footsteps of some of the brokers we've had roaming this forum and he's seen up close what those guys have done, the damage they've done and I do believe that he is trying to make an honest living. He may have to figure some things out on the fly and in the used equipment industry it is impossible to please customers 100% of the time, I wouldn't want to do it full time. Those guys who do try to deal with used equipment and do it the right way have my respect, it's a tough job trying to have a smooth deal go down when everything that can go wrong will go wrong.

Submitted by californiadreamin on Fri, 03/30/2012 - 22:35

srimonogramming wrote:
I think there are different types/levels of brokers and I'll say I had a good experience dealing with Paul from a sellers point of view. He isn't a traditional broker like some of them but he does provide a service. He's more or less helping a seller move the equipment they are trying to sell. That's what he did for me and I was happy to have some help getting the word out to others who might be interested. He's more of a facilitator and not someone that is going to hold hands, inspect everything, refurb equipment and install like some will do, but you aren't paying him to do all that either. I have no clue if Paul knows a lot about the equipment that he's helping to move, but in my situation, I dealt with the customer as well as Paul, but he basically put me in touch with someone to buy my stuff that I was not able to do by myself.

I'm not trying to take up for the guy, just explaining that his service was more for the seller in our instance and I was happy to have the help. If you buy a $50 steak and get a $5 steak then yeah, I'd be mad, but if you buy a $5 steak and get a $5 steak then can you really be upset that you're eating a $5 steak? If Paul is trying to charge a premium price for a bargain service then I can see why someone would be upset, but that isn't what he did with me so I'm saying this because he treated me and the customer I sold to the right way. Unfortunately I can't say that about every deal he's done because I don't have inside working knowledge of his business and it's his to make sure he does things the right way or he will have to find another occupation.

I think that there is a place for that service if the seller is willing to give a cut or work out the deal with Paul pryor. I will agree that Paul will need to learn as much as he can about what he is selling or it will come back to bite him. I've talked to him enough to know that he does not want to follow in the footsteps of some of the brokers we've had roaming this forum and he's seen up close what those guys have done, the damage they've done and I do believe that he is trying to make an honest living. He may have to figure some things out on the fly and in the used equipment industry it is impossible to please customers 100% of the time, I wouldn't want to do it full time. Those guys who do try to deal with used equipment and do it the right way have my respect, it's a tough job trying to have a smooth deal go down when everything that can go wrong will go wrong.

I like Paul as well, I have met him, shook hands with him and all my
fingers were still there! A good sign! I have also heard good reports about
Paul, and I would not hessitate to use him! I have also never heard of Paul
taking peoples deposit,and not delivering! A Great sign...

Submitted by Gilligan on Fri, 03/30/2012 - 22:51

Sounds like he's doing a job that needs to be done.

The world needs ditch diggers too (not suggesting that is all that Paul is... just a phrase).

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

Submitted by EmbellishAthletics on Fri, 03/30/2012 - 23:45

Had Paul been up front about his role then it wouldn't be a problem. Had he simply said I am just the middle man and I have no idea what shape the equipment is in other than what the seller listed in the add. He should be upfront that he has no idea about the features, functions or value of the equipment and he would have been better off.

IMHO a "salesman" trying to sell something they have very little knowledge about provides very little value. I suspect if you were trying to sell screen printing to a customer and you had no idea of what the final product would look like then you would have a hard time staying in business. How long would it be before your reputation was gone?

If you are trying to make an "honest living" then make an honest effort to learn your trade and be upfront with your customers.

What Paul needs to do is either let people know upfront that he just getting a finders fee and that he has no idea if the product is what is described. He didn't do that at all in this case. He tried to wow someone with his knowledge about the product and about his knowledge of the value of the product when he had never even laid eyes on it. He didnt even know if it worked or not. If he is willing to take those risk then I believe eventually it will bite him.

He may be a great guy who made a mistake. Time will tell. If he is upfront in the future about what his role is and that he basically has no knowledge of the product he may succeed.

I think he would be much better off making an effort to learn something about the product he is trying to sell. It's not rocket science. It wouldn't even take that much effort to educate himself.

Submitted by californiadreamin on Sat, 03/31/2012 - 08:49

EmbellishAthletics wrote:
Had Paul been up front about his role then it wouldn't be a problem. Had he simply said I am just the middle man and I have no idea what shape the equipment is in other than what the seller listed in the add. He should be upfront that he has no idea about the features, functions or value of the equipment and he would have been better off.

IMHO a "salesman" trying to sell something they have very little knowledge about provides very little value. I suspect if you were trying to sell screen printing to a customer and you had no idea of what the final product would look like then you would have a hard time staying in business. How long would it be before your reputation was gone?

If you are trying to make an "honest living" then make an honest effort to learn your trade and be upfront with your customers.

What Paul needs to do is either let people know upfront that he just getting a finders fee and that he has no idea if the product is what is described. He didn't do that at all in this case. He tried to wow someone with his knowledge about the product and about his knowledge of the value of the product when he had never even laid eyes on it. He didnt even know if it worked or not. If he is willing to take those risk then I believe eventually it will bite him.

He may be a great guy who made a mistake. Time will tell. If he is upfront in the future about what his role is and that he basically has no knowledge of the product he may succeed.

I think he would be much better off making an effort to learn something about the product he is trying to sell. It's not rocket science. It wouldn't even take that much effort to educate himself.

Good "Words Of Wisdom For All !!!

Submitted by Inkwerksspd on Sat, 03/31/2012 - 11:51

I had a broker come look at a dryer I was selling on this site. They posted an ad the next day in the same section with my dryers info for a thousand more than what I was asking.........*******.....lol

Submitted by californiadreamin on Sat, 03/31/2012 - 12:55

Inkwerksspd wrote:
I had a broker come look at a dryer I was selling on this site. They posted an ad the next day in the same section with my dryers info for a thousand more than what I was asking.........*******.....lol

This brings up Great Questions!
I have been on the printing side,the supply side, the machine side,
the buying side and the selling side! On all of these sides, one has to
realize a reasonable "profit" in order to stay in business.It has been my
experience, that no mater what side you are on, there are those that think
that somehow the other side is getting unfairly compensated one way
or another! The salesman think the "guys" in the back are low lifes, the
"guy" in the back think all "salesman" are thiefs. They both think the
"Owners" are getting rich, and are not paying them, what they are truly
worth! The "purchasing agent" feels that he is the reason, why the company
is making their money,until he changes jobs and goes to another company
and finds out, the vendor he was buying from, was selling him the same
item for much less than the previous company! Which means should the
"buyer" have been fired much earlier for not negotiating a much better deal,
or was it the "vendors" fault for taking advantage of him! What about the
leasing companies? All of this became way to clear for me, when I was hired
by creditors,sellers, buyers to liquidate shops and got to look at a "history"
of paper work and found GIANT discrepances from shop to shop! And last but
not least the "Nike" shirt that sold for $35.00, The screenprinter made all
the money, because he did all the work! Right? I wish!
winston

Submitted by EmbellishAthletics on Sat, 03/31/2012 - 14:25

Great summary of the general perceptions and realities Winston. Part of the reason I originally created this thread was due to some of the things you have listed above.

In the situation I orignally described Paul was just trying to make a quick buck. He had not done his homework nor made any effort to provide any value. Now had his fee been something reasonable it would have been understandable (you get what you pay for) but he was trying to make a *few* hunderd for doing absolutely nothing but re-posting an add. We need to make the industry aware of these types of situations. We as a country have to get back to getting paid for what we produce and the value we add to any situation whether it's in this particular industry or another. I have no idea when it changed that people started looking for the easy buck. Maybe it has always been that way but just more predominant these days.

Just work hard, work smart and provide value to your customers no matter what you do and you will succeed. If you are looking for the quick fix......try one of those work from home make a Million schemes and see how far you get.

Submitted by PAULB on Sat, 03/31/2012 - 14:58

Well I am trying to prodive a service that helps smaller shops, and if any body asks I tell them I am a broker. Even if I might not know everything on equipment I am selling, I try to learn as much as I can. I am sorry you feel like I didn't provide you with the best answers, and know I am working my Butt off to give my customers better service. I'm not perfect by any means and hope you can understand I'm not making 5k off of every deal. I do appreciate the honest feed back and will work even harder to provide customers with better information on the products they plan to purchase. Thanks Paul B

Submitted by EmbellishAthletics on Sat, 03/31/2012 - 15:49

PAULB wrote:
Well I am trying to prodive a service that helps smaller shops, and if any body asks I tell them I am a broker. Even if I might not know everything on equipment I am selling, I try to learn as much as I can. I am sorry you feel like I didn't provide you with the best answers, and know I am working my Butt off to give my customers better service. I'm not perfect by any means and hope you can understand I'm not making 5k off of every deal. I do appreciate the honest feed back and will work even harder to provide customers with better information on the products they plan to purchase. Thanks Paul B

Paul you are taking a big step by posting and explaining your side of the story. I suggest you read Winston's post and take as much from that as you can. Evaluate the services you provide and determine what you think they are worth. Ask yourself how much you would pay for the effort and service you are providing?

I know for a fact in this case you were trying to make $200 - $400. Maybe you can enlighten us as to how much work you did to earn that money. I assume you called the seller and ask would they be willing to let you sell the equipment for a cut? So you made a phone call. Then you copied the add from the CraigsList orignal posted by the owner and re-posted on here. Now the question is how much is that worth?

You have alerts setup or you scan the internet for listings, call someone up and ask them if you can sell it for them (15 minutes of total work) and then you re-post or have to create an add. (15 minutes more?). So for a total (over estimated) you spent ~30 minutes and you believe that effort is worth $200 - $400? Not so sure that is going to fly unless you are deling with high end realestate or $100,000.00 cars and such.

On top of that can you describe to me the condition of the equipment? Was it beat up? Was it rarely used? What was the original cost of the equipment? Does the equipment work?

You are in a difficult situation. Who is your customer? Is it the seller or the buyer? It's really hard to represent both but it can be done but only if you provide value to both. You need to understand and feel confident that you have earned your money. You said you are "trying to help the small shops" around the country. In what way did you help that in return for the service you provided is worth $400?

Submitted by PAULB on Sat, 03/31/2012 - 16:21

With paying me the $200.00 extra you would of get the exposure unit that is packed the right way on the pallet for shipping. You would of saved that $200.00 off the top from shipping too. Even though you might think I'm trying to get something for nothing your wrong. I spend hours for free sending out quotes (equipment/shipping)and showing custumers equipment. Like any business my time is money. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but if you gave me a chance you would see I go above and beyond for my customers.

Submitted by EmbellishAthletics on Sat, 03/31/2012 - 16:43

EmbellishAthletics wrote:
Paul you are taking a big step by posting and explaining your side of the story. I suggest you read Winston's post and take as much from that as you can. Evaluate the services you provide and determine what you think they are worth. Ask yourself how much you would pay for the effort and service you are providing?

I know for a fact in this case you were trying to make $200 - $400. Maybe you can enlighten us as to how much work you did to earn that money. I assume you called the seller and ask would they be willing to let you sell the equipment for a cut? So you made a phone call. Then you copied the add from the CraigsList orignal posted by the owner and re-posted on here. Now the question is how much is that worth?

You have alerts setup or you scan the internet for listings, call someone up and ask them if you can sell it for them (15 minutes of total work) and then you re-post or have to create an add. (15 minutes more?). So for a total (over estimated) you spent ~30 minutes and you believe that effort is worth $200 - $400? Not so sure that is going to fly unless you are deling with high end realestate or $100,000.00 cars and such.

On top of that can you describe to me the condition of the equipment? Was it beat up? Was it rarely used? What was the original cost of the equipment? Does the equipment work?

You are in a difficult situation. Who is your customer? Is it the seller or the buyer? It's really hard to represent both but it can be done but only if you provide value to both. You need to understand and feel confident that you have earned your money. You said you are "trying to help the small shops" around the country. In what way did you help that in return for the service you provided is worth $400?

Did you answer the questions I put in the post? No! Did you think about the questions? No! You might want to reconsider deflecting. List your efforts.

Surely you are not going to spew about shipping! Really? Hmmm...I am local. I drove over to the owners shop and saw the equipment myself. Had I purchased the equipment then I would have loaded the equipment and brought it back. I am quite certain we had that conversation.

Don't go down the path of some of the other people out there. If you do you will not succeed. You will be in the same shape as them. You won't even be able to give it away.

You might be a good guy. I have no clue. I described the situation just as it happened. You are deflecting just like some of the other crooks on here. Again, read Winston's post. Read and answer my questions if you would like. Use them for input to decide if you believe you are providing a service that is worthy of your price. In this case you didn't even come close!!! Hell, you kept saying over and over that the equipment was only 2 years old and it was made in 2008! I kept correcting you and you kept going back to it.

I am not going to keep banging heads with you. I told the truth! I gave you an opportunity to state your "value" in this deal and you bring up some kind of BS about shipping that is not even relevant! Have you been reading the other post on this thread concerning an individual who has chosen the same path?

Answer these simple questions and then we will be getting somewhere:

On top of that can you describe to me the condition of the equipment? Was it beat up? Was it rarely used? What was the original cost of the equipment? Does the equipment work?

Submitted by eetherman on Sat, 03/31/2012 - 18:58

EmbellishAthletics wrote:
Do brokers provide value or are they just looking for a quick easy $ while providing zero value? There is one on here that does nothing but scan classifieds all over the country and then re-list under their name. They haven't seen the equipment, have no idea what condition it is in or even if it works. When you call them they just shoot you a line of crap. It's doubtful they even know what the equipment is used for.

I can understand someone actually going out and finding equipment and purchasing at a good price for re-sale. The guys who spend the time to inspect and then refurb (if needed) are providing a service. The particular one I ran into simply found a listing on Craigslist and listed it here at a higher price. He knew absolutely nothing about the equipment other than what the owner wrote in the original listing.

What happened to people actually working for their money? BTW....the guys name on here is PaulB. A little research of his postings will reveal much of the same.

Quick story!
I found my javelin on this site about 4 yrs ago. The broker, who still sells here to this day, was trying to sell for $12,500. I found the originally owner and bought for $7,500. This just shows you how much these guys can make on a deal without even seeing the machine. I know you don't always have the ability to track a machine down and I may have gotten lucky. One thing I do know is if these guys don't take the time to see the machine in person then stay away!!

.

Submitted by PAULB on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 08:34

Quick story!
I found my customer Mark in north Ga a 2007 Lawson 6 color 8 station automatic press (LCD screeen) for $8k. I saved him close to 2k to 5K on that press. Maybe he would tell you about me driving up to Indianapolis, cause the seller couldn't be there for the LTL truck to pick up the press. Yes I saw the press. I rented a truck and picked the Lawson press and drop it off at the depot (LTL) at 11 pm at night. Now he's printing 5k T shirt orders. I work very hard for the money I earn, I'm sorry your not happy with my service. Oh yeah I'm in south Florida right now to see no presses. I always look at the automatic press I'm selling. I was in Naples running a Javelin for another customer to check out just yesterday.
I hope you have a nice Sunday.

Submitted by Printwizard on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 09:07

There is definitely a place for good brokers. I think good brokers need to have mechanical knowledge, and to an extent ex techs make good brokers as they understand levels of wear and tear and how omething has been maintained. You pay for the level accordingly and like printers, brokers reputations are made on the level of work they do. There will be a truckload of unseen variables on deals and also deals that never go through from brokers and these will alter on every item. The big stuff surely they are there to see the machines, but the little stuff with no margin you can excuse them for not previewing as long as that is also talked through with the buying party. Paul, I think you are just not going to please the persons on this thread. There is definitely a place for good brokers and traders. Of course there will be knockers of middlemen because someone got a sharper deal or bought direct and that works for some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time. IMHO the best thing you could do Paul is tag around with someone like Winston for a week and buy him breakfast, lunch and beer for what you will learn would be invaluable. Also perhaps go visit some of the manufacturers. And of course these forums are invaluable for information also. Even then you will never please some people because you made a margin on something to make a living,how dare you!!!!

Submitted by EmbellishAthletics on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 09:09

PAULB wrote:
Quick story!
I found my customer Mark in north Ga a 2007 Lawson 6 color 8 station automatic press (LCD screeen) for $8k. I saved him close to 2k to 5K on that press. Maybe he would tell you about me driving up to Indianapolis, cause the seller couldn't be there for the LTL truck to pick up the press. Yes I saw the press. I rented a truck and picked the Lawson press and drop it off at the depot (LTL) at 11 pm at night. Now he's printing 5k T shirt orders. I work very hard for the money I earn, I'm sorry your not happy with my service. Oh yeah I'm in south Florida right now to see no presses. I always look at the automatic press I'm selling. I was in Naples running a Javelin for another customer to check out just yesterday.
I hope you have a nice Sunday.

You still haven't answered the questions I ask. You are just like RWB. You refuse to answer legitimate questions about your actions. If you have nothing to hide then why not just answer?

So let's try one more time and then I think everyone will know what the answers are and can decide for themselves. In this case of the exposure unit you listed, did you see and inspect the equipment or did you just simply list it sight unseen?

I have no problem with what PRINTWIZZARD wrote except that the brokers should be upfront and say to the buyer I havent seen the equipment but if it is what the seller says it is then it is worth a look. Attaching a reasonable finders fee to it is fine too but if you think you can be successful charging a price that does not meet the value add then you won't be in business long.

You have a great Sunday also!

Submitted by EmbellishAthletics on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 09:49

Quick Story:

We did a fairly large order for a really huge corporation. The company is probably one of the most recognizable companies in the world. Let's just say there are a computer related company. Our client who is a local representative of the company who is coordinating the convention walks in our shop a couple of days after we had finished their shirts. She needs badge holders for the convention and lots of them. She said they need to be fairly inexpensive because they are reaching their budget limit. She says I only have a budget of $1.75 ea based on the number I need. They only want the cheap one with no logo. We don't do promotional items but we had ordered some in the past. So I look at a few websites and find that we can get them for $.35 each at the volume she wants. It took me less than 10 mins to find what she needed and I walked back to the front of the shop. Now I certainly could have said we can get them within your budget and I could have made thousands at a profit of $1.40 ea. Easy money right? I have a customer who in this instance has no clue about this type of stuff. I could have just raked that money right into my pocket.

What I did is wrote down the website address and the price and told her that she should just order them herself because we provide no value in that transaction. Why? Lots of reasons. One...I only won't to get paid a fair price for the service we provide. Two.....she was an unsuspecting customer who I knew if we were honest/upfront with she would send us more orders. Three....had I taken advantage of the situation and she some how found out later our reputation would be ruined.

Submitted by Printwizard on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 12:14

EmbellishAthletics wrote:
Quick Story:

We did a fairly large order for a really huge corporation. The company is probably one of the most recognizable companies in the world. Let's just say there are a computer related company. Our client who is a local representative of the company who is coordinating the convention walks in our shop a couple of days after we had finished their shirts. She needs badge holders for the convention and lots of them. She said they need to be fairly inexpensive because they are reaching their budget limit. She says I only have a budget of $1.75 ea based on the number I need. They only want the cheap one with no logo. We don't do promotional items but we had ordered some in the past. So I look at a few websites and find that we can get them for $.35 each at the volume she wants. It took me less than 10 mins to find what she needed and I walked back to the front of the shop. Now I certainly could have said we can get them within your budget and I could have made thousands at a profit of $1.40 ea. Easy money right? I have a customer who in this instance has no clue about this type of stuff. I could have just raked that money right into my pocket.

What I did is wrote down the website address and the price and told her that she should just order them herself because we provide no value in that transaction. Why? Lots of reasons. One...I only won't to get paid a fair price for the service we provide. Two.....she was an unsuspecting customer who I knew if we were honest/upfront with she would send us more orders. Three....had I taken advantage of the situation and she some how found out later our reputation would be ruined.

I would have farmed that out and made a reasonable margin, actual fact we would have indented it straight out of China. The days of being a print only shop are limited by product knowledge. We have shares in a badge making, an embroiderer and a signage shop, and we own our screenprint shop outright, but only maybe 5% of our revenue is made out of screenprinting tee shirts now, it's about supplying solutions to people who don't have time or knowledge to shop around, at a reasonable price. Be it in our shop, a JV factory or a third party it's all about turnover and margin. You lost a fantastic opportunity.

Prosperi-Tees's picture
Submitted by Prosperi-Tees on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 13:09

Yeah I also think you actually did a disservice to the customer by not sourcing them for the customer. Sourcing products is a service. You could have tacked a 30% margin and gave the customer a great value relative to their budget.

Submitted by EmbellishAthletics on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 13:58

I don't take peoples money when I can. I take it when I provide a service or product that has value. I offered to order the badges for her but I did tell her I would put a margin on top. She chose to do it herself even though the money wasn't coming out of her pocket. She did it for her employer that was paying her a salary.

3 days later we got an order from another branch of the company from the NE for embroidered fleece jackets. Would we have gotten the order anyway? Not sure. Will never know.

The last work I will say about PaulB is that he had an opportunity to state his side. He came on here spewing about his service was saving me money on shipping/crating when in fact he and I had the conversation about me picking the equipment up locally. He even stated thats why he list the location of the equipment because that way it gives him the opportunity to sell it locally. In fact, when I met with the owner of the equipment she indicated she did not want to sell the equipment unless it was local.

He still has not answered the question about whether he even knew if the equipmnet works or not. Hell, I don't even know because I didn't plug it in. He knew nothing about the equipment. Still doesn't. He can't even manage to tell the truth about it.

If you want to do business with him and the other type that provide no value then certainly that is your choice.

Submitted by PAULB on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 14:06

No I didn't get a chance to see the the exposure unit you are talking about. Sorry I can't get out to every location. First of all I gave you the address to the location after you told me your going to check it. Second I told you it's in good condition 2008 ?? After talking to you and you made a big deal out of nothing just like this. I told you to buy a new one if that made so upset paying me an extra $200.00 but you still keep talking (Craigslist price $3,500 price I gave you $3,400). Then you went behind my back and try to buy it with out paying me. I'm not mad at you just disappointed that there are people out there like you that has nothing better to do than set here and talk crap about people you don't know. Good luck with that one. Oh yeah I do pick up equipment off of craigslist to sell more equipment in a location I plan on goin to in the future. Kind of like Dallas. I hope that anwers all your nickle and dime questions for today. Thanks and maybe you should judge yourself and your actions before making assumptions about someone you never met before. I have no ILL feelings towards you and hope for the best for you. Good Luck.

Submitted by sieggysrv on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 15:38

EmbellishAthletics wrote:
I don't take peoples money when I can. I take it when I provide a service or product that has value. I offered to order the badges for her but I did tell her I would put a margin on top. She chose to do it herself even though the money wasn't coming out of her pocket. She did it for her employer that was paying her a salary.

3 days later we got an order from another branch of the company from the NE for embroidered fleece jackets. Would we have gotten the order anyway? Not sure. Will never know.

The last work I will say about PaulB is that he had an opportunity to state his side. He came on here spewing about his service was saving me money on shipping/crating when in fact he and I had the conversation about me picking the equipment up locally. He even stated thats why he list the location of the equipment because that way it gives him the opportunity to sell it locally. In fact, when I met with the owner of the equipment she indicated she did not want to sell the equipment unless it was local.

He still has not answered the question about whether he even knew if the equipmnet works or not. Hell, I don't even know because I didn't plug it in. He knew nothing about the equipment. Still doesn't. He can't even manage to tell the truth about it.

If you want to do business with him and the other type that provide no value then certainly that is your choice.

You seem to forget that he provided you with the name and address of the customer that had the particular unit you were looking for. He didn't have to give you either! Had it been any other broker I'm sure they wouldn't have done that, and I know quite a few of them, and from the condition of the unit, they would have up the price at least $500 more, so you say He didn't provide you with anything! I think You need to get you head examined,
other wise you would never have known about it, and yes a lot of brokers surf the internet for equipment but they also call the sellers and ask for pictures, and in Paul's case He does travel to most of his clients to inspect the equipment, and than what he doesn't know he will call an expert and ask questions about it> But than do You know everything about every piece of equipment out there? I think not so get off your high horse and shout it! Because you already look like a Fool !

Submitted by HoneyBadger on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 16:27

EmbellishAthletics wrote:
Quick Story:

We did a fairly large order for a really huge corporation. The company is probably one of the most recognizable companies in the world. Let's just say there are a computer related company. Our client who is a local representative of the company who is coordinating the convention walks in our shop a couple of days after we had finished their shirts. She needs badge holders for the convention and lots of them. She said they need to be fairly inexpensive because they are reaching their budget limit. She says I only have a budget of $1.75 ea based on the number I need. They only want the cheap one with no logo. We don't do promotional items but we had ordered some in the past. So I look at a few websites and find that we can get them for $.35 each at the volume she wants. It took me less than 10 mins to find what she needed and I walked back to the front of the shop. Now I certainly could have said we can get them within your budget and I could have made thousands at a profit of $1.40 ea. Easy money right? I have a customer who in this instance has no clue about this type of stuff. I could have just raked that money right into my pocket.

What I did is wrote down the website address and the price and told her that she should just order them herself because we provide no value in that transaction. Why? Lots of reasons. One...I only won't to get paid a fair price for the service we provide. Two.....she was an unsuspecting customer who I knew if we were honest/upfront with she would send us more orders. Three....had I taken advantage of the situation and she some how found out later our reputation would be ruined.

You are a self important pompas A$$.You have a
bad case of opticrectumitis... It is where your
nerves in your A$$, get crossed with the nerves
in your eyes, and you have a $hitty outlook
on life..
Remember, HoneyBadger dont give a schitt.

Submitted by inkman996 on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 17:33

So this guy is whining about a guy trying to earn a living, I have heard good things about Paul on this site from some reputable people at that, not only that I have never seen a claim of him burning anyone. The man is trying to earn a living, he is researching a scouring for equipment that he can then target to the industry crowd, you think his time had no value what a joke. If you have such an issue with brokers then do not use them and
Leave them alone for dos sake, no one is forcing you to buy from one and you even had the chance to inspect a piece of machinery in person.

As for not sourcing the name badges that's your dumb as fault, you could have provided a service by doing all the order taking and shipping arrangements that is worth something trust me.

Submitted by Printwizard on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:27

inkman996 wrote:
So this guy is whining about a guy trying to earn a living, I have heard good things about Paul on this site from some reputable people at that, not only that I have never seen a claim of him burning anyone. The man is trying to earn a living, he is researching a scouring for equipment that he can then target to the industry crowd, you think his time had no value what a joke. If you have such an issue with brokers then do not use them and
Leave them alone for dos sake, no one is forcing you to buy from one and you even had the chance to inspect a piece of machinery in person.

As for not sourcing the name badges that's your dumb as fault, you could have provided a service by doing all the order taking and shipping arrangements that is worth something trust me.

Mike, they tried to discredit Paul and make themselves look like an idiot. Time is money, time sourcing a lanyard, funding it and checking pantones, production managing for the client, organizing freight etc. Just like Paul's time. Too small minded to get through to this one, but funny how they use his knowledge and contact then get dirty and try justifying cutting him out.

Prosperi-Tees's picture
Submitted by Prosperi-Tees on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:44

Exactly, sourcing a product for a customer is definitely a service. I do it all the time, banners, business cards, stickers, promotional products etc etc and I dont do any of the labor but sourcing is worth your time to charge something for no doubt! Sending the customer somewhere else could seem that you dont have the time to take care of their needs . They came to you for a need and you did not fulfill it and thats bad business.

Submitted by repogolfer on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:47

EmbellishAthletics wrote:
You still haven't answered the questions I ask. You are just like RWB. You refuse to answer legitimate questions about your actions. If you have nothing to hide then why not just answer?

So let's try one more time and then I think everyone will know what the answers are and can decide for themselves. In this case of the exposure unit you listed, did you see and inspect the equipment or did you just simply list it sight unseen?

I have no problem with what PRINTWIZZARD wrote except that the brokers should be upfront and say to the buyer I havent seen the equipment but if it is what the seller says it is then it is worth a look. Attaching a reasonable finders fee to it is fine too but if you think you can be successful charging a price that does not meet the value add then you won't be in business long.

You have a great Sunday also!

First off...RWB sales equipment but then doesn't deliver it after its even paid for...so its pretty unfair for you to compare Paul to RWB.

2nd off....time is money and some of us put a higher value on our time than others do. $400 for an hour.....heck yeah...nothing wrong with that at all. Sometimes higher sometimes lower depends on what you can get.

Bottom line for me is I have a certain dollar amount that I will trust people with. If its over that amount then I make sure I check out the machine myself. If its under then I don't really lose much anyways..and I'll take a chance. That dollar amount for me is $1k.

Pull up your panties and make $$ when you can....even on badges.

Jon

Submitted by EmbellishAthletics on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:49

First I never tried to cut him out of the deal. His deal was with the seller. I never said a word to the seller about the deal with him. I assume if they had a deal then the seller would have paid had I bought the equipment.

Paul might be a good guy. My intention was not to discredit him although I can see how it could look that way based on how the thread progressed. I do apologize for that and wouldn't discourage anyone from doing business with him. In the right situation I am sure he earns his pay.

My only point from the very beginning is how you can sell something site unseen. If it is a longtime customer that you have done many transactions and you know how they treat their equipment then maybe that is legit.

PaulB I do apologize if I caused you any grief. We will just have to agree to disagree on this particular situation.

Submitted by inkman996 on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:50

You look at it like Paul is trying to sell something sight unseen when in reality with this case he is simply trying to make connections, by doing so equipment like the exposure unit might not have even made it to this site, Paul did the work and made it happen which in turn gives a lot of people here the opportunity to score a product. Now even if you do takeout out of the equation you are still buying sight unseen because you have to trust the seller, maybe not if you are local but for the most part private listings are national.

As for sourcing a badge well some of us have money invested in the promotional market, we pay for services like sage or ask, we also know the products we buy can be trusted to be quality, chep badges off line might be garbage or even worse never delivered. So yes a customer absolutely pays for a valuable service.

Submitted by EmbellishAthletics on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 21:36

The point I was making about the badges was that we knew nothing about them. If you re-read the post it stated we don't do promotional products. That is why I passed. I provided no value. You are correct that people who invest the time and the $$ should certainly provide that service. Should we provide it in the future? Maybe but we have enough to do at this point.

I was not in any way trying to state that promotional products are not a legit service and offering. At this point I have no knowledge about that aspect of the business. Maybe I will send them to you next time. Will you give me a cut?

Submitted by Gilligan on Sun, 04/01/2012 - 22:45

Well, for the sake of being open and honest.

I had this conversation with Paul

PAULB wrote:
Gilligan wrote:
PAULB wrote:

Ok I have a 40-1K Nuarc expose unit 2002 for $1,000.00 and it's in light units.

Ok.. we are getting closer.

Got some pics/details... better price?


LoL I'll have some pic's and more info later this afternoon.

This was on March 23rd... So on the 26th we had this conversation:

PAULB wrote:
Gilligan wrote:
Not what I meant. (I originally asked "where you at?" and he said Atlanta, GA.)

You said you were going to get me more details about the 40-1k that evening (friday).


I'm going down to the shop in South florida by wednesday of this week. I'll have more pic's and the serial # model # for you. Thanks you can call me at 678-602-1886 I can also ship the exposure unit to you. But I'll need the city and state it's going to.

I still ain't seen picture one yet.

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

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