general rules of thumb for digitizing...and how to spot a bad design.

By digidana on Sep. 27, 2016
Forums: 
Embroidery and Digitizing

ok...and pet peeves.

run fill stitches at an angle. not left and right, or up and down. if you run with the direction of the nape of the fabric it can stretch the fabric and cause puckering and throw off registration.

no satin stitches under 1.3 mm wide...including lettering. less than that and its thread-break city. if lettering comes out less than 1.3 mm wide. pull comp can be used to make it wider. but don't go so wide that it fills in the e's and a's.

my general rule of thumb. if a stitch area is less than 1.3 mm wide, its a running stitch. take the time to zoom in and measure the stitch widths with the pull comp to make sure they aren't under 1.3 mm. between 1.3 mm wide and 6 mm wide, its a satin. over 6 mm wide and its a fill. (tho this rule gets broken from time-to-time depending on the situation). as the width of a satin stitch goes up....so should the density and amount of underlay.

less than a 2-2.5ish mm satin stitch only needs a single line underlay. more than that and you're jacking up the stitch count unnecessarily.

caps...digitize from the center out and from the bottom up. a cap design will stitch fine on a shirt....a shirt design will not always stitch right on a cap.

underlay is important. and so is pull comp (whether you compensate manually or automatic). not all underlay has to be generated automatically. if you have, say, a checkered flag, consider laying down an underlay in the first color, either manually, or using a fill stitch with a very light density, that covers the entire flag area first, and not just under each check. the underlay will help hold the entire area stable and help with registration.

not everything you see in a design should be digitized. you have GOT to know what works and what does not. and tell your customer up front what can't be done so they aren't disappointed and give options. text too small? can you make it work in all upper case instead of caps and lower case? can it be stacked on two lines, etc.

think about pathing. the sewing order is important, but pathing from one stitch group to the next is just as important. nothing is more irritating than a design with 15 unnecessary trims.

registration. when you outline a fill with a running stitch, end the fill stitch a bit short of the running stitch outline in the direction the stitches are running. if you digitize a running stitch perfect circle, the fill stitch should look more like an oval.

1-click, autodigitizing is terrible. don't use it. even the best software can't THINK.

give your design depth and character. can a large area of fill be done instead with several sections of satins to give it life? no? how about several sections of fill stitches running different directions? light will catch the stitch groups differently and bring it to life. (skubler...the email i sent you is a perfect example of this). it takes a lot more time, but is worth it in the end.

https://s15.postimg.org/5n169gzob/image.jpg

this design would be boring with one solid block of grey fill, and one solid block of white fill.

lettering. vertical stitching letters, like I, M, N, V, W (etc) will stitch looking taller than letters that are horizontal on top and bottom like a B, C, D, E, O (etc) unless you compensate for it. the edges of the satin stitch will sink into the fabric making the horizontal letters look shorter. if you don't compensate with pull comp, do it manually. without pull comp i generally make the BCDEO (etc.) 6-8% larger. on lettering that is horizontal on top like FPRT i enlarge vertically about 3-4% then make 'flush top' with the BCDEO letters. on letters with a horizontal bottom like JLU, i bump it up 3-4% and make "flush bottom" with the BCDEO letters.

small serif fonts. NOT two stitch groups like this:

| |
| |
------------
_________

do it as one stitch group...like this:

| |
__| |__
| |

if you (the embroiderer) are having consistent registration problems, thread breaks or having to send designs back for edits....you need to find a new digitizer. they will probably be more expensive, but they are worth it. the best embroiderer can't make a poorly digitized design stitch well or look good.

what did i miss? i'll probably come up with more later...its early. :D

Location: 
United States
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digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Submitted by proost on Sat, 11/19/2016 - 08:34

digidana wrote:
they spent a LOT of time doing cutesy stuff like monograms that i'll never use. i keep meaning to go through the cd a chapter at a time to learn more. i'm sure there are tons of features i'm not using that would make life easier. i just learned the benefits of input B yesterday. :D

I'll probably wave off then and not take the course. I have found a bunch of training videos online via their site and also on YouTube. On the embroidery side, changed out my first bobbin (thanks YouTube)! So, so much easier than even 15 years ago with the host of resources out there!

Submitted by proost on Sun, 11/13/2016 - 12:19

digidana, thanks a lot for the informative post. Yesterday, I took one of my friend's vector logos for his business and spent all day in Wilcom practicing my digitizing. First ever. Would you be will to take look at the file and offer a critique? One area I know I need to look and redo is a T in the logo - exactly what you described in the "I" above.

I did two runs - first was autodigitizing. Did a large format design and then shrunk it and then for the second, just made a small cap sized design by hand. Stitch size came in half.

So so much to learn. Will ultimately go live with my biz on Jan 1 - from home on a SWF 1501C and probably outsource a fair amount for the complex stuff.

Thanks again for the great post!

Submitted by proost on Sun, 11/13/2016 - 12:23

proost wrote:
digidana, thanks a lot for the informative post. Yesterday, I took one of my friend's vector logos for his business and spent all day in Wilcom practicing my digitizing. First ever. Would you be will to take look at the file and offer a critique? One area I know I need to look and redo is a T in the logo - exactly what you described in the "I" above.

I did two runs - first was autodigitizing. Did a large format design and then shrunk it and then for the second, just made a small cap sized design by hand. Stitch size came in half.

So so much to learn. Will ultimately go live with my biz on Jan 1 - from home on a SWF 1501C and probably outsource a fair amount for the complex stuff.

Thanks again for the great post!

Robert Young - you as well if you don't mind!

Submitted by diana35758 on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 16:30

I didn't know whether to start a new thread or to just add to this general rules of thumb digitizing discussion. I am digitizing a design for a soft knit polo-like shirt and this has to be one of the worst fabrics I digitize for! The design is mainly text and of all things a fat/thin font both large and small. It seems I have to re teach myself every time I digitize for this fabric! Are there some rules you have to strictly stick by when digitizing for this fabric? I am never satisfied totally with the results. Even when I look at examples in the store for soft knit garments and compare what I have done, there is not much difference but the letters are not pristine. Please share what works for you. Thanks so much!

Submitted by digidana on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 19:13

i went to the training class in atlanta last july. it did help get me started using wilcom. its way different from the old software i used the first 20 years. but they spent a lot of time doing cutesy stuff, like the monogram features, the team names thing, etc. they didn't spend any time at all on actual digitizing technique...it was all kind of learning the different buttons and what they do. i really wish they had an advanced class. i spent half my time actually doing work in class. don't tell. ;)

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Robert Young's picture
Submitted by Robert Young on Tue, 09/27/2016 - 10:07

If I could give this post more than 1 like I would ! TEXTBOOK PERFECT.... not one thing to disagree with.. and if anyone does (those #)$((@($) lol I have sewn samples to prove you are correct.

I never do fill stitches left to right or up and down mainly because if lettering is being sewn on top... the lettering will lose either the x or the y axis. and zipper into the fill.

i WISH I could get clients to stick to 1.3mm wide satins... but we tend to go to .7 and hope they have thinner 60wt? lol (or 75wt)

I always advise (more lately than ever before) for a client or distributor to actually LOOK at the design on screen at the size you want it embroidered.. most times if they do... they instantly recognize.. oh yeah, this or that wont work in thread... you are correct I have not seen 1mm tall lettering work.. ha. etc.

auto digitizing? sorry, a bit of vomit just came up. yuck. people that sell that should have to watch it sew and then see if they would be proud to show it.

lettering ! perfect... EVERYONE in our industry should learn this. why does the pdf have all the letters different sizes? well Virginia, there IS a Santa Clause

Modern Embroidery Designer
volant-tech.com
volantfineart.com

Submitted by digidana on Tue, 09/27/2016 - 14:17

Robert Young wrote:
If I could give this post more than 1 like I would ! TEXTBOOK PERFECT.... not one thing to disagree with..

i WISH I could get clients to stick to 1.3mm wide satins... but we tend to go to .7 and hope they have thinner 60wt? lol (or 75wt)

I always advise (more lately than ever before) for a client or distributor to actually LOOK at the design on screen at the size you want it embroidered..

hahaha...thanks for the laugh! i was hoping it all made sense...i started writing it at about 3:30am in a unisom stupor.

i always stick with the 1.3 mm rule. and if there are "iffy" areas, i will pull it in at actual size to make sure i can make it all work or see what won't.

i thought of another rule...no "turn fill" (meaning a fill stitch that turns like a satin) that makes tight turns. No S's or O's it will always pucker and stitches will be too tight on the inside.

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Submitted by digidana on Tue, 11/15/2016 - 18:59

naldopr wrote:
so much to learn! I want to become a digitizer any suggestion? books videos etc?

there are a couple of books. one by helen hart, and another by strawberry stitch that i know of. do you currently embroider? a background in embroidery definitely would help. you need to learn how the machine works and watch some well-digitized designs stitch (there are way more bad ones than good ones out there). then pick a software, go to training class, watch videos, etc. learning the software is the easy part. there is actually a LOT to learn for the actual technique. it takes time, a lot of trial and error and error and error, and quite an investment. i paid about $16,000 for my first software and just switched to wilcom in july and put out thousands more. i would not suggest starting digitizing without an embroidery machine. you'll need to be able to stitch every design you do for years. i think i stitched every design for probably my first 10 years before i was 100% confident in not doing sewouts. and then once you get good at it, you get to combat overseas digitizers charging $10/design. :D

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Submitted by digidana on Wed, 09/28/2016 - 09:39

jgardog wrote:
What a great post!! I don't quite follow the small serif part though. I'm relatively new to this.

thanks! maybe this will help...

on a capital letter I with serifs for a small font, instead of making the tiny serif one stitch group, the vertical part of the I another stitch group, and the bottom serif a stitch group...make it all one stitch group with just the serif portions a wider satin than the "stalk". that way the serifs are actually wider than the stalk instead of more narrow and probably causing thread breaks. make sense?

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Submitted by Dave F on Wed, 11/16/2016 - 10:35

This is awesome thanks, I have been doing digitizing and embroidery for like 8 years.. you would think I would be better than I am at it. I got the job way back with no experience, and just had to start working with software I have never used and had no clue how to digitize. Mostly everything I have learned I have just figured out, but I know don't understand A LOT, I find I'm much better visual learner than anything, when I read the books, I just won't understand and I can't ask it a question. But This is a good read for sure and helps a lot. Thanks!

Submitted by digidana on Wed, 11/16/2016 - 11:04

Dave F wrote:
This is awesome thanks, I have been doing digitizing and embroidery for like 8 years.. you would think I would be better than I am at it. I got the job way back with no experience, and just had to start working with software I have never used and had no clue how to digitize. Mostly everything I have learned I have just figured out, but I know don't understand A LOT, I find I'm much better visual learner than anything, when I read the books, I just won't understand and I can't ask it a question. But This is a good read for sure and helps a lot. Thanks!

happy to help! i didn't have any embroidery or digitizing experience when i started either. my mother had been an embroiderer for years and got me into it thinking it would be easy because i had a background in graphics. turned out that there was a lot more to it than i thought. i went to the software training class and learned some of the software basics, but that didn't help at all with the actual digitizing technique. my mother didn't know anything about digitizing either....other than knowing my early designs sucked....and she SURE let me know! hahaha i've never taken a digitizing class....just picked up a lot from trial and error.

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Submitted by Dave F on Wed, 11/16/2016 - 11:16

digidana wrote:
happy to help! i didn't have any embroidery or digitizing experience when i started either. my mother had been an embroiderer for years and got me into it thinking it would be easy because i had a background in graphics. turned out that there was a lot more to it than i thought. i went to the software training class and learned some of the software basics, but that didn't help at all with the actual digitizing technique. my mother didn't know anything about digitizing either....other than knowing my early designs sucked....and she SURE let me know! hahaha i've never taken a digitizing class....just picked up a lot from trial and error.

Im pretty decent with more designs, when it comes to logos with fills, they are my nightmare for the most part, especially big fills on hats, I can never make them look right. Also I noticed the other day when I changed my travelling route along the edges it does the fill better, but I dont understand why really, lol. And if I have along the edges selected than I cannot use overlap lines, but if I have along the middle I can have overlap lines.

Submitted by proost on Wed, 11/16/2016 - 11:42

As digidana is painfully aware, I'm in the throes of newbieness. But I love it and found that the hours slip away while I learn how to digitize.

I use Wilcom but haven't broken the book once. What I have done is explore what is intuitively obvious like importing graphics and navigating around the software. Then, I go watch some training videos because like you Dave, I'm a visual guy. Then I apply what I learn. Hit a wall and go watch more videos. Then I test. More videoa. More trying. I did that for a full weekend and at some point, I'll grab the book and continue my learning as I come across something I want to do but can't figure out. I guess that's how I've always learned.

At some point, I'd like to attend one of Wilcom's in-house training courses and would love to hear if anyone has attended one of those in Atlanta.

Thanks to digidana for the assist and advice. I have enough to keep me busy for another full weekend!

Submitted by digidana on Wed, 11/16/2016 - 16:32

Dave F wrote:
Im pretty decent with more designs, when it comes to logos with fills, they are my nightmare for the most part, especially big fills on hats, I can never make them look right.

i'm not sure what you mean with the overlap on the edges...you shouldn't need them there? it helps to have the fill stitch end point at the natural end of the fill stitch area. that's one thing i really don't like about wilcom. it puts the end points at the closest point of the next stitch group...even if there is a color change. i find myself going through and moving things around a lot...or running manual run stitches from the end of one stitch group to the beginning of the next. for caps...if there is a large area of fill...i've come up with a super secret type of manual underlay that really helps keep things right with caps. hahaha if you want to email me i'll send you an example

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Submitted by digidana on Wed, 11/16/2016 - 16:36

proost wrote:
As digidana is painfully aware, I'm in the throes of newbieness. But I love it and found that the hours slip away while I learn how to digitize.

At some point, I'd like to attend one of Wilcom's in-house training courses and would love to hear if anyone has attended one of those in Atlanta.

i thought you did pretty darned good job for your first shot! i've seen way worse done by digitizers who are getting paid for it. i used capital automation's software for the first 20 years and just switched to wilcom in july so i'm still learning it too. wish they had an advanced class. i went to the atlanta class in july and picked up a good bit, but they spent a LOT of time doing cutesy stuff like monograms that i'll never use. i keep meaning to go through the cd a chapter at a time to learn more. i'm sure there are tons of features i'm not using that would make life easier. i just learned the benefits of input B yesterday. :D

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Submitted by digidana on Wed, 11/16/2016 - 18:17

proost wrote:
As digidana is painfully aware, I'm in the throes of newbieness. But I love it and found that the hours slip away while I learn how to digitize.
At some point, I'd like to attend one of Wilcom's in-house training courses and would love to hear if anyone has attended one of those in Atlanta.

i thought you did pretty darned good job for your first shot! i've seen way worse done by digitizers who are getting paid for it. i used capital automation's software for the first 20 years and just switched to wilcom in july so i'm still learning it too. wish they had an advanced class. i went to the atlanta class in july and picked up a good bit, but they spent a LOT of time doing cutesy stuff like monograms that i'll never use. i keep meaning to go through the cd a chapter at a time to learn more. i'm sure there are tons of features i'm not using that would make life easier. i just learned the benefits of input B yesterday. :D

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

minimalist's picture
Submitted by minimalist on Fri, 10/14/2016 - 17:13

Robert Young wrote:
Minimalist... thank you for your comments... there is no school for what we do.. so everything each of us says is important. your reasoning sounds very reasonable and no one can doubt your ability... thank you.

Thanks for the compliment. I've done commercial sewing for over 20 years and embroidery for 5 years. Half the battle is tricking the machine to do something right.;)

minimalist's picture
Submitted by minimalist on Thu, 09/29/2016 - 17:11

Here comes the dissenter. I regularly use horizontal and vertical fill. Why? I have run into issues with skipped stitches when using an angle. My take is that the thread twist varies from cone to cone and when it goes through the path it will twist before entering the first tension plates. The pop when the thread enters the tension assembly will cause the loop not to form thereby causing a skipped stitch. The tech that was at my shop blamed it on the thread. Put in another spool from the same manufacturer and no issues. Vertical or horizontal helped eliminate most of the problems described above.

I like to use horizontal fills on caps. It covers the seam and follows the path of least registration issues.

I've had to digitize block lettering in the past so that the elements will not be sewn on one part and then going back to reach that same point by the machine. The elements are stacked so that the letter sews from the top to the bottom on loose weave beanie hats. I've got the step density ridiculously high to avoid gaps.

Details? Lose some or you're going to need a twelve step program.

Submitted by ayugup on Fri, 01/12/2018 - 13:20

Hello Professional Embroiders
I have a question about sizes
You have helped me a little when you said under 1.3 mm, it should be running stitch and between 1.3 to 6mm, it should be satin stitch. My question is do you know the size of Triple Run, Sculpture Run, Back Stitch, Stem Stitch and Zig Zag Stitch.

Submitted by digidana on Tue, 01/16/2018 - 18:43

those are all stylized stitches and i usually use them when they would add to the character of the design. the triple run i use in cases where it should be a running stitch, but a little bolder would look better. honestly i almost never use the triple run. when i'm outlining in running stitches, i do it manually so that there are two layers of running stitches everywhere.

back stitch is a little bolder than the running stitch, but i rarely use it. its a pain in the neck to get it to run right with the in and out points. you have to be really careful or you end up with a bazillion trims. the stem stitch i've only used a few times....and mostly just for the decorative effect. i've not used the sculpture or motif run or the zig zag (which is just a satin stitch with a light density).

i used the stem stitch a good bit on the leaves of this one:

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Submitted by digidana on Mon, 09/24/2018 - 20:31

i don't like the backstitch and rarely use it. its a pain in the neck because of the pathing issue. you have to use a running stitch to run to the beginning of the backstitch, then do the backstitch if you want the pathing right. not bad if you only need a few, but if you use a bunch its very time consuming. i just usually do it manually with running stitches run back and forth at an angle.

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

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