Anatol Trident 6/8 year 2000 optical safety sensor missing

By treex3 on Feb. 03, 2012
treex3's picture

Purchase Anatol Trident 6/8 year 2000 at auction and am in the process of getting it up and running. The problem that I am having is the Optical Laser safety sensors (the ones on each side of the load and unload pallets) were missing when I bought it. I need to purchase new sensors but I have no reference of how the wiring for the sensors are routed. Does anyone have this same press and willing to send me a pic of the sensor wiring?

Unfortunately when I contacted Anatol they seem to know very little about this press and cannot find a wiring diagram for this press.

Anatol Trident 6/8 year 2000 or so.

—

Thank You!

spotcolorsupply's picture
Submitted by spotcolorsupply on Sat, 02/04/2012 - 09:15

I would start by tracing the wires from one of the safety bars. It’s basically a loop connection that breaks when one is actuated. The lasers are part of that loop... There are a few of these presses in Atlanta. If you give me a call or email I may be able to hook you up with one of the owners...:D

Brannon Mullins
Spot Color Supply
770-329-8243
51 Aiken St
Cartersville, GA 30120
spotcolorsupply.com
sales@spotcolorsupply.com

spotcolorsupply's picture
Submitted by spotcolorsupply on Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:19

treex3 wrote:
I believe that you are right brannon, but the question is where on the distribution block. if I could only see a pic of a press showing the wiring route of the sensors....

Give me a call on monday... I am working on one next week, and may be able to help!!

Brannon Mullins
Spot Color Supply
770-329-8243
51 Aiken St
Cartersville, GA 30120
spotcolorsupply.com
sales@spotcolorsupply.com

treex3's picture
Submitted by treex3 on Sun, 02/05/2012 - 22:49

Musterdbom,
Thank you for taking the time to post a pic of your presses wiring.
Attached is a better pic of our presses wiring. Looks to me like you may have solved our problem. Looks like the sensor wires go were the arrow is. Is your press up and running, don't see a power supply like mine? Mounted elsewhere?

Thank You!

treex3's picture
Submitted by treex3 on Wed, 03/07/2012 - 01:44

musterdbom wrote:
See pic below. The two cables coming in are from the sensors.

Sensors have arrived but I am not sure about the wiring. The colors of the wires are Pink, Black, Blue and Brown. All the same colors as @musterdoms except for the pink which is the issue. Anyone have any input on wiring this NPN retroreflective sensor to the contacts. sensor is a Omron E3F2 R4C4. pics are attached thanks.

Thank You!

Submitted by musterdbom on Sun, 02/05/2012 - 23:05

Yeah mine is running. All my power supplies are down under the servo motor in a case. Guess they put them in different places over the years. Mine's a 2004 10/12 with AC heads. There's probably a way to bypass the safety beams by looping one of the contacts. I'm sure the optical gate breaks continuity when it trips.

treex3's picture
Submitted by treex3 on Sun, 02/05/2012 - 23:23

Thanks again for the pic its helped alot, pretty sure we need 2 4 wire optical sensors with blue black white brown wires. Hopefully after we Replace all six worn out stroke cylinders and get sensors installed we will be up and running......

Thank You!

Submitted by musterdbom on Thu, 02/09/2012 - 17:11

ThatMachineGuy wrote:
If you are buying new sensors make sure to look as to whether they need to be PNP -or- NPN

Perhaps musterebom could tell you what his are?

Yeah, I was going to say it doesn't do a whole lot of good unless he knows what they do when they switch. Could be as easy as looping a piece of wire in there to bypass the sensors. I'll have to get up on top of the press and have someone index it and trip the sensor while I probe it with a multimeter in order to be sure. I'm in FL on vacation now though so it'll have to wait but I'll do it!

spotcolorsupply's picture
Submitted by spotcolorsupply on Thu, 02/09/2012 - 21:44

treex3 wrote:
That machine guy, looks like I have got some more research to do before buying sensors thanks for bring this to my attention. Anyone that has this press know if it is PNP or NPN type sensors?

They should be NPN... I replaced some on a similar Trident recently :D

Brannon Mullins
Spot Color Supply
770-329-8243
51 Aiken St
Cartersville, GA 30120
spotcolorsupply.com
sales@spotcolorsupply.com

Submitted by musterdbom on Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:33

If you want to bypass the sensors to test the machine or bypass them altogether because they're notoriously faulty, you can connect the top RED sensor wire to the black ground in the right side of the power distribution block. This will put voltage to zero and allow the press to index.

Like this:

Submitted by musterdbom on Thu, 02/16/2012 - 21:30

This is the wiring on the other side of where the sensors plug in on the connector block. This wiring should be in place on your machine, correct? You'd only missing the sensors and wiring to the other side of the block.

What's in the first pic below is the way it was wired from the factory with the red wire on the top of the block in that position. Check to see if yours looks just like this before proceeding to the second pic.

This is where I unplugged the red wire from the block and connected it in with the black wire in the bottom right of the block to ground it. This is the wire going to the main board telling the machine that everything is ok, no sensors tripped, even if there are no sensors plugged in the other side.

Submitted by musterdbom on Mon, 02/13/2012 - 21:41

Also, the sensors on mine can be wired either way, PNP or NPN. It's a pretty dumb circuit and prone to failure from the beginning as one sensor in an untripped state serves as the ground to turn the second sensor on. So if one sensor is buggy or flaking out you can be sure it will mess up the secondary sensor and kill the indexer. I assumed they did this so they'd only have to have one input for the optical sensors on the main board rather than two. Whatever the reason it is bypassed now!

treex3's picture
Submitted by treex3 on Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:56

Musterbom,
Thanks for the info on the sensor wiring I haven't bought the sensors for my press yet but when they arrive this post will be a lot of help. In process of ordering replacing all stroke cylinders now... Once that done I will be moving on to sensors press is starting to get expensive all the little problem are adding up lol...

Thanks again

Thank You!

Submitted by musterdbom on Wed, 02/15/2012 - 21:06

No problem. I guess what I'm saying is you really don't need to use the sensors at all. A lot of Anatol owners bypass them altogether. At the very least you can bypass them to get the machine running and then decide later if you want to purchase new ones and wire them in.

Submitted by Gilligan on Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:45

Yeah, the local guys with an Anatol here basically hung them up against the machine pointing at each other. They found that just leaning in to load a shirt was causing them to trip all the time.

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

treex3's picture
Submitted by treex3 on Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:16

Ok, That will be very annoying if they keep tripping while we are loading shirts. Musterbom is there way to bypass them by using a jumper wire? I'm a little confused by your pics, looks as if you have existing sensor wires to work with I don't have anything. I would hate to spend the money on them and not even use them. So I guess what I asking is there a way to bypass the sensors when you don't have any sensors to work with?

Thank You!

Binkspot's picture
Submitted by Binkspot on Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:48

I hate to see anyone bypass a safety devise. If you feel you must bypass the OEM switch that may be tripped by a shirt being loaded maybe use a pull switch with a safety wire. You could probably get away with one switch and a cable. This way you would have some degree of protection between you the pallet and serious injury or death. But this is still not the way the mfg intended to run the machine and in no way am I suggesting running the machine any different.

Here's a quick link to what I'm talking about.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#cable-pull-switches/=ga1b3g

Owner/Operator of Middletownink

Submitted by musterdbom on Thu, 02/16/2012 - 21:41

Binkspot wrote:
I hate to see anyone bypass a safety devise. If you feel you must bypass the OEM switch that may be tripped by a shirt being loaded maybe use a pull switch with a safety wire. You could probably get away with one switch and a cable. This way you would have some degree of protection between you the pallet and serious injury or death. But this is still not the way the mfg intended to run the machine and in no way am I suggesting running the machine any different.

Here's a quick link to what I'm talking about.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#cable-pull-switches/=ga1b3g

I agree and should have put a disclaimer at the very least of "do at your own risk". The optical sensors on my press came to me with one reflector placed centrally with both sensors pointing at it, basically bypassed unless you reach your arm under the main control panel toward the center of the machine.

I guess I could have remounted reflectors out toward the end of station one and ten and re-aim the sensors. I have heard though of the problematic nature of the sensors so I opted not to. I'm overly cautious around the press and don't enter between the arms with the clevis engaged.

A bump bar that trips a limit switch would also be an easy solution.

treex3's picture
Submitted by treex3 on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 00:55

So, I have the sensors installed and they seem to be working fine. The press will now index, table up/down and test print fine. The problem I am having now is when machine is in auto mode the table wont raise/lower and index. The led light on control panel for table up down turns on and off on its own after each print head cycle but table doesn't raise and is not indexing. Anyone have any ideas? I have the Anatol operator manual for the press but it is not very detailed. What does F1, F2, F3 ect. do?

Thank You!

Submitted by musterdbom on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 09:35

Yep, what Alan said. It's time for the big guns. Sounds like more than a loose wire to fix that problem. There are a ton of unused buttons on the display that as far as I know have no use and to be honest aren't very intuitively configured. That's my main gripe with the "drill-down" menu system, if you have ALL these function and extra buttons on the control panel, why do I have to drill down to sub menus every time I want to do something?

It's like have a menu bar at the top of a website with 30 options across it, but the only way to navigate is with two of those items via a drop down pop out menu lol.

treex3's picture
Submitted by treex3 on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 17:57

Ok alot of unused button for sure! Confusing when your trying to troublshoot a problem and your not familiar with the press controls. Which button is real which one is just there for looks lol.... I wasnt sure if the index problem was being caused by some hidden dwell setting but unfortunatly for me I think the problem seem to be more complicated.....

Thank You!

srimonogramming's picture
Submitted by srimonogramming on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 18:03

There is two buttons on my main control panel that don't have a function but they were there for future additions so when they were ready to add to the machines, a simple software upgrade could be done and the older machines could get those new functions without having to get a whole new membrane panel put in. That may have been Annie's reasoning behind those extra buttons or not, but that was RPM's reasoning for having them.

treex3's picture
Submitted by treex3 on Thu, 03/15/2012 - 19:59

srimonogramming wrote:
There is two buttons on my main control panel that don't have a function but they were there for future additions so when they were ready to add to the machines, a simple software upgrade could be done and the older machines could get those new functions without having to get a whole new membrane panel put in. That may have been Annie's reasoning behind those extra buttons or not, but that was RPM's reasoning for having them.

Makes sense. Our press was made in 2000 and has software version 1.12 maybe there is a upgrade will have to look into it.

Thank You!

treex3's picture
Submitted by treex3 on Fri, 03/29/2013 - 11:33

Thought Id give a update to this problem we figured out the index problem by doing a hard reset. By pressing "SET-CLEAR-RESET" it reset the program and machine works great! Thanks to Manny and Randy at the OTS for providing the solution. Hopefully this fix will help someone else too.

Thank You!

treex3's picture
Submitted by treex3 on Mon, 04/01/2013 - 14:49

musterdbom Yes, SET-CLEAR-RESET solved it, It reset the program back to normal. Out of the blue, This morning the memory battery died in the control panel and when I turned the machine on this morning it had the same problem of not indexing again. I replaced Battery Hit set-clear-reset all is normal for now....hopefully memory battery wont keep dying unless I may have another set of problems...

Thank You!

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