What is the actual difference between RPM and Mustang??????

Ok, pretty much they have the same parts. As Alan mentioned these have prox sensors as RPM are allowed use on the encoder which is a patent owned by MnR, so the flag proximity system is basically used by every other brand and manufacturer globally. As things become obsolete or new to market 2M will adapt the machines built with some componentry, there was a failure, and parts were replaced. Happens occasionally to all manufacturers, and if there is a problem it is corrected an a new fit or alternative or modification saught. Mustang is no different to many other presses, and the same as RPM I imagine, in that the servo lift is a new feature, and as such is optional at an extra cost, like it would be on other MFGs. Another variance is the Mustang is a bigger print format. There may be slight pricing (Margin) variations also, and in part comes down to who you are comfortable dealing with and who answers the phone when you ring at 7pm or a Saturday Morning. There will be other features in time and there will be basic no frills, or trade up options in the purchasing process. There will be knockers (GraphicDisorder) who will never buy one, fine, and stop whining. But I do want to point out, these are not all Barnes inventions, but componentry and features already used in other machines, industries, as bought in parts from engineering and electrical wholesalers, and logical development features talked about by printers or borrowed designs from oth industrial applications, like what may be used in offset or another machinery process then adapted by 2M for their machines. 2M develop just like TAS, MHM, MnR etc, some to lesser or more extents and the conspiracy theories are moronic just because of one person representing this manufacturer. If another Brand had an agent who developed some mental illness they would think it sad, may shy away from that distributor, but they would not kick the manufacturer or brand. Not everyone associated here are bad, there are some good people, like with all companies ;-)

And I'm not saying Robert is certified crazy. Just you can't judge the machine by the agent. You judge the machine and manufacturer separate to the agent. I think the right purchasing contract and doing it with 2M is risk free, they would not let disaster happen in their own back yard. PM me if you want to talk through.

Drastically different scenario you just mentioned. Choosing a representative who later goes nuts is much different than picking one that already is.

How can you honestly not fault 2m for letting him represent them? That goes straight to their core of their judgment. It's a mistake and you know it.

You are not serious with that ***** are you Printwizard? whatever the product is doesn't matter.

People can and do every day judge companies and their products by the representation. That is the whole reason for having a sales team to start with.

LOL

Hey, I know people not on here who deal with Robert, got what they wanted, love their gear, liked the whole transaction and follow up and would be their first next call. Every brand has disasters. I am not going to haul skeletons out of closets on someone else's issues, but I so easily could, the fact they relate to NZ and Australia is not relevant to the US. And it's the agent not the manufacturer. And not all are that squeaky clean behind rose tinted glasses, yet they keep their agencies with manufacturers knowledge as they sell product and have history. I am not advocating Robert, I just think as long as you wanted
Mustang you could easily buy it and have it delivered easier than you make out. 2M stands behind their machines, not like Printex. Totally different. Fill the contract out and make progress Payment to 2M,
Robert won't get his cut until machine is installed. There is your security. The only person making this hard is you. In reality it's very simple and safe.

He's tried to manipulate me many times. So while I didn't get ripped off I had a lot of my time wasted because of no other reason than I care about people....

I fault any company that would choose such a person to represent them. That goes to the core of what they stand for. Flat out a reflection of the type of choices tapes make as a company.

But ya I've been really clear and you've ignored it or have selective memory. If set on a 2m machine I would advise someone buy it from Rick Fuqua. I too considered one. Turn time too long for me at the time. I was past needing a auto when I ordered.

You do, I don`t, so don`t generalize. M&R for example,their distributer in Japan is not that good, did that make me not buy their equipment? No way. Inform yourself about the company, get in touch with them and ask if you can purchase directly of them without going through their dealer. Tell them the reasons so that they know what`s wrong, which might give them the opportunity to correct their short comings. If they are not Ok with that too bad and take your business somewhere else. But honestly, too often you bring up Barnes and his dodgy dealings. Have you ever been personally a victim of his? Why not leave this Barnes stuff up to the real victims of him, they have at least the knowledge and background.

I see Brandt's point, its kinda like me not printing obscene artwork because I don't want my company name tied to it.

99.9% of your clients do not care what type of machinery is in your production area. In this business do you honestly think that people care one way or another what type or where your machine came from? They sell tons of Chevy and Chrysler vehicles every day. They screwed more people in this country than you could even imagine. What people want is their work done right, at a good price and on time. That is all that matters in this business, does anyone accept a screen printer know what an RPM, M&R, TUF, TAS or any other press is? Highly doubt it!!

I will say this... Printex's technical issues pretty much sprung up on machines that Barnes' sold. Coincidence? HIGHLY doubted. He asked them to make changes and things broke. He will admit that (at least he did to me). Is this what happened to the RPM when Robert started having them make them into Mustangs? I can't say, but Alan's neighbor had to change out a ton of components and Alan didn't.

Granted, I'm SURE it's not Robert's fault... just ask him (or wait for him to chime in).

Firstly, buy off Rick, no problem at all there.

Second, Robert wasted your time? You waste your own time. Add it up and it will be hours a week chasing and posting, probably on your form added up would be a good couple of working weeks every year. Imagine not wasting that and hopping on the phone selling or pumping out production. You are like an addict trashing Barnes with a blind loyalist fervor normally reserved for English Football Hooligans. Broken Record......

That's absolutely true... it is not pretty.

Luckily it goes away when he goes away. I guess it's just like having a rock in your shoe and you can't stop complaining about how much it's bothering you but as soon as you get it out then you shut up about it. ;)

But it does get old, no doubt.

Printex, a new manufacturer, and in fact of hindsight their models were all beta or concept models, the faults were there from the manufacturer from the start even from Roberts alterations right or wrong could not be proven to go down hill with the changes. The claims that Robert destroyed them makes me ask the question: where are all the Printex machines running sweet with out modifications, before Robert came along. Second, if the mods were no good, then why has Printex adopted those mods albeit with tweaks as ongoing in their lines? Those technical issues have been on all models sold, that's the whole beginning of beta machines. No coincidence, reality.

RPM and Mustang, solid years of production, machines with 5 to 10 MILLION prints on the counters and people trading up to newer machines. They at a point made changes and tweaks between Rhino and RPM, and with component changes along the way, some didn't work and alterations were made, and overall classed a solid machine with reputable history. 2M are making changes again with their models and what they can make and as they tweak, like all manufacturers there may or may not be some alterations albeit minor made. I recall MnR making changes, finding a faulty batch of components on one machine, and going back through and supplying everyone parts to put it right. Thats what people do. Not even close to Toyota recalling 8 million vehicles but!
These changes, some aree in conjunction with Robert, some were in the Pipeline and likely in conjunction with Rick or and by Mariusz and Weiss own developments even before Robert started trying to get orders for these. You are trying to make smoke where there is no fire..... This is no comparison, not even close. Would Robert claim that 2Ms and even Ricks developments were his. Wn input or drive, of course he would. In part he. Is right, there are some good ideas onboard that are being pushed where technology cann be utilized to make the machine more functional with less downtime. And faster makeready and changeovers, which increases output and profit. The aim is not to strip this back and make it into an entry level machine, but to make this even better as the best in its class by continuous improvement and development.

What basis do you even have to make such a statement I bet I don't spend even 10 minutes a week on this ****. I type extremely fast and work at a computer all day.

You have no basis to call me a blind loyalist. I have recommended several brands of presses both before and after my M&R purchase. Hell I almost bought a Anatol.

Just because I don't want people getting rippled off by a PROVEN rip off artist doesn't make me a loyalist of any brand, just someone that cares about people.

Printex builds a good machine! I have seen one up close and was impressed
with there thought pattern,quality of machine! Printex was sold as the next
thing since "sliced bread", the "coming messiah",etc. It was "Promised" as
much more, but delivered "much less". Building a automated screenprint
machine is not difficult for one who has certain knowledge!The basic premises
are common in every day industrial automated applications! Making a machine,and making money are two different things! Printex did not have the
support, commitment,focus on the USA side to make it happen and it showed! Early on, the USA side was on a "trip around the world" to reinvent
the wheel! At Precision Screen Machines of N.J. they built lots of "one off
machines" for the Screenprint Industry. Where there issues? Sometimes! But
they addressed the problem one at a time, IN A TIMELY manner,until solutions were implemented. They were in business for 40 years plus or minus, and went out of business for "Bringing Better Technology" to the
screenprint industry, which on paper worked, but in a "print shop application"
SUCKED! Mostly Electronics. As Far as 2M, this is their soil. Where are they?
They no doubt built a good machine, but time will tell if they still do! They
should not depend on this "new relationship'' to put them on the map! 2M as
a company, should be PROACTIVE and protec their "good name and product",
by being in the forefront, not the rear! IMHO...
winston

I believe I had the original Versaovals, round the corner from Patterson. I'd show up and boom another machine on the floor. So eventually we had like three or four. Tricked out to run 2,200 imp per hour with an 11 person crew. It was a 3 mill Newport cigarrette promo contract. But when a press would go down that's a lot of people standing around!

Hit Tony!,
I remember them well!
I spent a lot of time on those,
as well. You could hit some numbers
with them. How would you like runs of
yesterday, today! At yesterdays rates! I
rember selling Tommy Grimes a machine
and he paid it off in three months!
Winston

Winston, Wasn't Tommy the owner of Silkworm? He had a factory right down the street from me in Mt Pleasant, SC. I believe he had the Camel cigarrette contract (Camel Joe). I remember Tony Santini and all installing a couple of new V/Os and some belts at the Nike Sports Graphics in Gvlle NC. Myself and one of my electricians almost died when we tried to unplug the flashes and made ground.
Those runs are still out there in isolated plants around the country and of course offshore. It was quite boring but profitable. All I did was unload and load the trucks all day!

Tony, yes it was Silkworm! He was printing the end of
Panama Jack! Dave Blake, one of my best friends,buds in
the world, who now works at M&R, then became the
King off Panama Jack, printing 24/7/365 !

If he wants credit then shouldn't he also take the fall, when it blows up in his face?

Where are the Printex's that run well? I guess all in Europe like this guy:

http://www.digitsmith.com/printex-prism-review-32157.html

Where are the US customers that are happy?

Where are the European customers that aren't happy? Like you said, don't create smoke when there is no fire. To say that all the Printex's are having problems and are junk would mean that there should be other non-US based customers that aren't happy. So far only ones that I know of are the ones that Robert worked with.

Are you subscribing to the "it's not Robert Barnes' fault no matter what" philosophy that he lives by now too?

Smells like BS, and where there is the smell of BS it must be BS.

Keep in mind, and I don't mean to be a prick here Printwizard, but YOU have a agenda and it IS clouding your perception.

What I do know is anything he touches turns into some level of ****. I have no problem faulting 2M for allowing that to happen. That either means they are too ignorant to know it, or too arrogant to think it wont happen to them too. I see no positive in either scenario.

Much my same opinion of Playtex from day one, before buying ANY auto, before even talking to M&R, and not to be blunt....but I TOLD YOU SO.

No, i am saying Barnes is one thing, Printex is another thing, and RPM Mustang is another thing. You cant blame 2M for Printex. And some of the things that have gone wrong and been sorted happen on all brands. Brandt, please tell me the open issues not sorted as of today on ANY RPM or Mustang? Its not that you care, you are just being a nieve shitstirrer with regards these two machines. Gilligan. I regularly talk a little with Artex - Miso Jevgenijevic, and our European franchise know of some other Printex machines. I know a few things not posted, and that I wont post. Graphic, there are a lot of skeletons around some of the manufacturers. Nobody wants the drama and stress of conflict, but if you knew some of the stories, listened to some tapes, saw some photos, read some documents and quotes you wouldnt be half as blinkered as you are now. There are a lot worse than 2M. I wouldnt want the legal nightmare. But there are many out there who know some skeletons..... Price gauging, Damaging machines, Faulty and no-fault parts replacements, deliberate damage during service, not servicing after minimum gaurantees, not servicing second hand near new machines, Software issues, Software supplied under spec and slowing the machine down so it wont run as fast, Sharing confidential company financials and customer data used when financing, selling machines not to specification, delaying service and parts supplies to certain customers, prices to some $60k over others who have had brand history and loyalty, refusing to service a 2005 machine just out of warranted parts supply period because they acted as a show shop also for a competing brand, helping poach sales staff and production managers for new factory getting new machines, grossly undervaluing trade-ins and buying back and re-trading the equipment 30k higher the week following, and a few that I would not mention because its too complicated or close to home. I know of nine people with "lists", and I am not about to compromise them or myself ever with details of whom, what, where, which brand in which case. As you often say "Preston thought he was the smartest person in the room". Dont throw stones in glasshouses. I dont know any industry that is as dirty in parts, some recent and some older history, and some unbelievable. In part from ex-staff ordered to do stuff, kept the photo and answerphone messages to protect their butt, first hand. Some amazingly good stuff and people, but yes, defintely illegal, unethical and dirty some manufacturers AND/Or their agents are, and still now, not just a long time ago, but currently too.

What are you talking about, nobody is blaming 2M for Playtex. I can though blame them for selecting Barnes as representation in the USA. Hell if YOU CARED about their future you should too. But hey maybe YOU are not seeing the forest for the trees. BTW are you making this up as you go or are you that lost? Please advise?

I never said anything that resembled that statement at all. I said clearly "I have no problem faulting 2M for allowing that to happen. That either means they are too ignorant to know it, or too arrogant to think it wont happen to them too. I see no positive in either scenario. "

Who EVER said they didn't? You? Nobody cares that manufactures have problems from time to time. They care how they react to them. Seems that your buddy has a history there. It seems to travel with him from one smoke show to the next.

What does this have to do with my statement, the douche just started this mess, give him sometime, it wont be long before he leaves someone with some sort of a problem. Remember he Almost left Teds with leaky choppers. A machine guru mind you.

Really? You are qualified to tell me what I care or don't care about now? You are amazing. LOL.

Nobodies perfect, karma works things out though. Companies end up where they should be by the whole of their business wouldn't you say? I mean if you screw people 90% of the time you will find yourself out of business in no time. If you are awesome to people 90% of the time you will find yourself in much better shape, maybe the best shape if your competitors are doing something "less" than that...

Sounds like a Gilligan or Alan quote, not mine.

One fact remains. If 2M/RPM was going to take over the screen printing world, they would have already done so by now. They had honest representation, good service, good track record in the USA. You can pretend all you like that Barnes wont dent 2M's reputation but you know deep down you are kidding yourself. What is most comical about all of this is it will hurt your sales of the presses as well. You are a sales man of them now right? Yes all the way over there in Europe it will affect you. People talk, even over big open water masses. That's my opinion anyway... what do I know I called the Playtex flop as soon as I heard who was pushing it. "I told you so".

Are you talking about M&R?

Brandt, the leak that I found during the install at Ted's was the lift cylinder. Also, PW lives in New Zealand, not Europe.

PW, hit the "ENTER" key from time to time man... I can't read that crap. :p

And he has a point... RWB selling Mustangs will hurt your sales, I don't know why you didn't just do like Barnes and call it something else.

Brandt.
1) 2M like all companies needs orders and some more work, they will take press orders because businesses need work, Robert can get orders, they will manufacture good machines to specification and supply them to the customer, get it installed and then check up on them to see how they are running.
2) 2M Reacts to anything that needs attention if they are aware of it, even if a part may have an issue that hasn't faulted yet they will notify and sort any issue out in a timely and professional manner. This is not what Barnes / Printex did. Just because Printex did not make right has no reflection on 2M and how they operate. Different company, different culture. Buy a machine and you will have Mark / Mariusz phone number directly.
4) Karma (B.S). Some times the mean get meaner and get away with it, as seen with corporate greed all over the world. People get strong by being nasty and defending their space ruthlessly. Plenty of examples there. Plenty of people like Madoff fooled the best for decades. Be it Finance, Politics, Consumables, Sports Teams or Machines, not always, but sometimes there is nastiness and poison along the way.
5) 2M are not into being number one, they are never going to be or desire to be as big as some other Manufacturers. They just want a good steady stream of machines, based around one model with various solid features. Not the biggest, not ten different models from Entry to the Top End. They dont want to be biggest, or number one in the world, just after a comfortable fit.
6) Tell us, get rid of Robert, they need sales. Are you going to fill that void? Where are the sales coming from. You going to rep for them? So until you answer that one, they will graciously supply Roberts customers with damn fine machines that will be delivered and print what was agreed and how its specified to function. This fundamental of business is across the board. Sometimes you can sack customers, sometimes you must take the work and bank the cheque. Sure we sack a few as too hard, but they have to affect us before we sack them. When times are slower we have to do some stuff we dont necessarily agree with. Be it print for a radical church or motorcycle gang or political party. Some times you need the turnover and cashflow and its too detrimental to walk away. I am sure if you convinced some big distributors to take on 2M distribution and they offered more sales then they will drop Robert, question is, can you effect that.

Gilligan, I operate a type of franchise/co-operative. 72 countries. We talk. Basically all branding companies who collectively import promo products. Not all print, there are embroiderers, pad, offset, signage, emgravers and trophy makers amongst us. About a third have screenprint inhouse, a bit over a third outsource textile screenprint and I would say a third stay away from textile. A lot of product development is done here, even for europe. Wouldnt be a day we dont talk to them.

Sorry, rush type when I can, forget to !!

Jeff, not naming names, More than one maker, predominantly one. Guarantee if I youtubed some stuff there would be several lawyers wanting it down, why would I want the drama of that, and thats the point, there are ratbags and dodge among suppliers, just nobody wants the drama of standing up to them and saying it aint right and fighting the consequences when they work in the industry. If I found 2M to do something I disagreed with ethically I would not try selling their machines. Wouldnt condone it. Would rather print by hand on principal.

I guess maybe it should be sold like that.

Maybe the Guru should just call himself a sales guy, make the sales and GTFO... let someone else do the install and DEFINITELY don't let anyone think he will be the support.

Also, no one should ever write a check to anyone BUT the boys at 2M.

I have a question. How big is 2Ms service network? If something were to go wrong how long would it take to get a tech out for repair? What does the warranty cover? That question is for all brands. Is the press owner responsible for all travel expenses for repair?

I was looking at the Tas website and they have a 4 year 4 million print warranty. But I also got a price for one of their presses and wowsers!!!

Agreed. How about you buy a machine off me, I have Winston install it, and the last 20% payable in 12 months after install based upon meeting operation benchmark. All the preliminary money you pay directly to 2M, and I take care of any balance to them and Winstons cost. I would put MY CASH where my mouth is. Warning, I would come for the install and drink all your beer.:eek:

I look at the service part as there are enough freelance people around. We run machines here without "the network" as there are heaps of mechanical, pneumatic, electrical engineers, fitters etc. These machines are not that rocket science. A lot of basic principals, common parts etc. It is important to have a working schematic on hand, and an electrical diagram. From there its common sense for any decent tradesman. Lots of industrial printers WAY more technical than these. Machines ten times the size, parts, value etc and maintained easily globally.

Its like servicing the BMW. Costs four times at the licensed dealer / service agent, but i get a better Job from the non-aligned guy down the road who has been good staff and tools. Some genuine parts, some aftermarket. It can be scary if you have the network, but when you realise the calibur of people and equipment, basic fundamentals and problem solving its not rocket science.

Awesome machines. Gerry see my previous answer. You can find locally a good air and pneumatics company, electrical engineer, fitter and turner. These people can liase with a manufacturer either by phone or skype with ipad and video, digital cameras, read onhand diagrams, they know common components locally available and can fix sometimes quicker than waiting a couple days for a genuine tech to visit. I use and electrical engineer on 24 hour callout, $50USD an hour and the guys are amazing. The mindset of 'The Network' is great, its reliable and all that, but it isnt the only option. Some of your engineering supplies places and electrical wholesale suppliers will know the best tradies to talk to. invite them over to see the press running and have a coffee, you will see they wont be scared, look who pokes and prods and you will find someone who can respond local fast and do the job, even if it meant talking to the maker, or referring to the drawings. Good guys are good at problem solving by sequence of elimination and logic. Like printers. There are some who cant, you can pick them quickly.

Thanks for the reply PW. One of these days I'll have enough cash to upgrade to a more modern press, by that time in sure alot will change.

Change is guaranteed. Evolve or die. My family started printing in 1974, I started in 1992, and a lot has changed. Some things have not changed much, but one must always look forward. I remember the people knocking CMYK, knocking discharge inks (successfully here, few print discharge here), knocking simulated process (EasyArt was written here). I remember being told I couldnt print CMYK at 85line dot. I remember being told plastisol tone wont print at 144 line. When I started we printed tone no finer than 45 line dot. I remember telling another printer you cant print CMYK onto a Northface Goretex Jackets that has about 4 layers and have it in rego, and stick, likewise Ripstop Nylon (We tried every ink, transfer and vinyl and it failed). They worked it out, now we sub them all our jackets....
Thing is I have more stories about change where we didnt go offshore indent early enough, we didnt invest in new machines, we didnt invest in the latest unproven direct to substrate printer, and I got scared about cad-cut and laser printing. I listened to the knockers on a lot and missed the boat every time. I have more regrets about the stuff we didnt do, than the stuff we did and failed, and thats in my life in general. Once I got past that its been upwards since. Things like going out to a restaurant where no-one speaks english and guessing or picking a number on a menu. Couldnt do that before, but now I know food will be cheap in China and I insure myself by buying four meals for two of us. 50% we dont have to eat, and the balance is usually amazing. Risk, risk management, waste etc. We could argue, discuss, debate, agree forever, but what is the point. Some change is enevitable, there will be good and bad decisions. there will be new and old technology. there will be leaders, followers, innovators, success and failure. I am not to say which is ever right, but I do hat the pessimists and knockers, they get me down. id rather try and fail than not try at all.

BTW there was a good post here some months back called Remember When? - It was funny and sad in hindsight, but apart from the prices and run sizes there are no other regrets. Everything has gotten faster, easier and better. No looking back, Things change. What was the best then is no longer now, most no longer in business.

BTW: TAS pricing isnt helped by the AUD being stronger than the USD. There was a time where they were probably 40% cheaper on exchange rate alone not so long ago. Globally the exchange rate can change the value of a manufacturer, volume of sales, profitibility and thus reinvestment in R&D significantly. Have a look at SRoque. Not sure on how many machines in the US, but I know of some going into Canada and Brazil

Agreed, Im in for the long haul and with growth comes change. It is coming for us I can see it, im just impatient at times.

I havent heard anyone speak of SRouque. There is also a machine out of India by Grafica that on paper and pics look great and its all electric. http://www.graficaindia.com/Grafica_Flextronica/Home/Home.html

Closer to home than you think, they have a US agent who also represents
Sias, a major Graphic Screenprinting brand. I'd never seen them. SRoque is a major international brand. I recall Winston reconning them the best bang for your buck 12 colour at about $60k. Smooth machines apparently, I will have a turn on one at a factory we farm out to next week if I can. I figure half an hour with pleasantries, and I will try hijack the factory tour and time with the sales staff half way round, I'd rather play with their machine, talk and muck up somebody else's printing while I play with it, ruin a few prints, get some ink on me. Far better environment than a boardroom. These guys used to run Wenzhou Changs / Changsinter machines which is a MHM replica, but apparently they're in love with SRoque which is Portuguese.

Who has a US agent? Grafica or SRoque?

RH Solutions LLC
Address: 127 Lakefield Drive, OH, Milford 45150, USA
Contact: Ron Hayden
Email: sales@@rh-solutionsllc.com**** Phone: (+33) 672145741

Website: http://rh-solutionsllc.com

Your BMW service analogy is flawed.

You still have FREE warranty service from the dealership. I think Gerry's question was more to that point... where is 2m's warranty service.

Let's say hypothetically speaking, all your screen clamps start leaking... do they just send you a bag of o-rings and expect you to change out 40 o-rings on your 10 color on your own time? Even if the machine has never even printed a shirt yet?

It's not that hard. If someone sent me O rings I could do it. If you bought a machine and had an issue and said "hey buddy, nice you to replace, but I'm under warranty, not on my time". I'd have already found some local electrical and engineering contractors who would support, I'd get 2M to send them the rings, send someone out to your place with the correct tools in a van and do it for you. I'd sort that on my visa, all I would ask is that you be nice and offer them a coffee, and they in return keep your place clean and tidy. It's a cheap, quick and easy solution. Maybe easier than waiting on the service agent across the other side of the state who still has six machines ahead of driving hours across to see yours. Chances are they're a common ring and the contractor would have your auto running with locally sourced rings before 2M courier had a chance to deliver. Same if an MnR broke down here, they won't put someone on a plane and fly out some rings in his suitcase. The local auto guy takes up to six weeks to visit. Now some textile printers have tried other engineers they are just dumbstruck at the difference in speed, quality and service improvement although they may not specialise in these. Likewise burner and gas specialists for driers, drive specialists for gear boxes, motor rewinders, the list goes on...

That can be tailored, like most things. Will be in purchase contract. Now if you want a warranty for a longer period of time or higher usage you will pay accordingly. Leasing companies, equipment and vehicle companies will all offer different plans with a price differential in a purchase contract, and of course you would sign that with 2M. For example that will be built into the cost of the TAS. Some cheaper machines only have 6-12 months.

It's a bit like screenprinting, if you want to grow by referral you put things right. Holes in your shirts or bleeding print, maybe even cracking ink. Cracking may be the ink, under curing, or something the person wearing came into contact or washed with, but make it right and move on, and move up. Recurring problem, stop selling that brand of shirt. Do more in service than you have to and you will sell more because people will rave about you. Especially the loud ones on the forums, so they praise your brand and diss the others. Really look after those guys good, even give them bigger discounts.
LOL ;-)

A leak is a leak is a leak. Who cares where he lives though. Clearly doesn't have a clue about US business.

AMEN!

Yes a different name may have helped him a lot!

So let me get this right. Sales at all costs, even if it destroys or tarnishes the brand by getting in bed with the worst of sales/support people. Got it, and please tell me again how we should all not view that as a huge issue reflecting back on 2M?

2M reacts to problems because they are brought to light honestly and openly by Rick. Wait till that channel gets all muddy. See Playtex for a recent example....don't try to spin it like that was all them. 2M wont be able to fix what they don't know about. Who's to say Barnes will operate like he should to inform 2M of problems. Can you prove he did this with Playtex? Or is this just more of him in your ear or you assuming? BTW having their phone numbers, well that doesn't ensure ****. Playtex users have Andrews number, please tell us again how that is working out?

BTW, where is 3? 1, 2, 4, 5, 6. Got it.

Karma still get's them all in due time. Tell us, where is Madoff?

Interesting, Barnes is already pimping it like that. Best machine on the market, best this, best that. (Claims). I know when I do something the "best" my goal is only to sell a few of them, are you serious with this BTW?

There are a lot of sales people in the US that would be far more capable of selling machines over him. Why would I sell machines, couldn't have less of a desire to do that, but if I did you can be sure it would be with class. Meanwhile back at the ranch, I run a growing successful business. Hell I just hired another employee and 2 part timers. My company has tripled in less than a year, sure I am still a small timer but the rocket has fuel and its pointing up. Go team. BTW Big distributors want proven equipment and while RPM has a history, the Mustang doesn't. Remember Playtex was said to be a "reliable" machine before Barnes came a long and changed them. Please tell us how that worked out.

Maybe you like to watch the same movie over and over, but it ends the same each time you know. Titanic is out in 3D now, are you hoping they see this iceberg this time?

So you support their choice in Barnes, and you endorse it since you are selling their machines.

Got it.

BTW how's that for spin. I mean you said it in so many words.

Technically it's still on point... in a way. :rolleyes:

That is PERFECTLY acceptable... as long as they are competent enough to do the job. It sounds like YOU have a plan. Is that the way people are being treated by "Mustang" in the US? I haven't seen it that way.

You are also correct in that you could change out those o-rings. I can rotate my tires, change my oil, change my exhaust system... hell, I have pulled the engine out of my Miata... but I tell you what, if I spend 60k on a BMW and a few weeks after I drive off the lot I get a letter in the mail telling me about an issue and suggesting that I change out some parts or even change the oil... I don't care if they sent me the oil, filter, pan and wrench... I'm not doing it... you better believe I will be driving that car back to the dealership for them to take care of it. And if it's an issue where the car shouldn't/can't be driven even that far, you better believe they better send out a mechanic to fix the problem.

I'm willing to bet that there are VERY few new BMW owners that feel differently than that.

I have 2 BMW's and have never had a problem with them, except tires and oil change!

That was kinda my question, is a press warranty like a car warranty only you dont have a local dealer to fix your press? Or are most press warrantys parts only?

No, seen the movie once. The only thing repeating is you Brandt...

Sorry my answers above, didn't quote and unquote.

Of course companies need sales, by your math (and his track record), he will increase sales only to kill or nearly kill the company base on how he will do it. Again we have all seen this movie, it's ended very similar each time.

I never said YOU said you were the best. He said the Mustang is the best, if it was the best it should sell really well. However you said they don't wanna sell a bunch of machines, but then you said they need sales. Confusing. The idea for most companies is to build a really great product, put in a really great sales and support staff, and sell the most physically possible while maintaining excellent sales/support. So their big move was to pick your buddy, and you apparently agree with that otherwise you probably would make it very clear you think its a mistake on their part. The reality is it's a huge mistake and you know it.

You know what I think? I think 100% he ran out of suckers in the USA to back him, so he had to look over seas. Seems like there are some suckers there lined up clearly not doing research. Playtex/2M

Nobody feeds me any info. I know that's real hard for you to believe because you seem real gullible. (You bought in to him for awhile, you came around on that one sorta though).