Ok, so my SERIOUS intention is NOT to start a mud slinging fest here. I have a feeling that is what it will bring, so I apologize a head of time but I would really like to get some info and opinions. I believe M&R makes a great press, everyone says their service is the best. In the current economy, I like the fact they support many jobs in the US. So now all that is said people will not think I am attempting to bash M&R.
My question is; what machine does M&R sell that competes with or is comparable to the MHM X-Treme. The print size of roughly 20x28" is important. The head/print arm high lift for cleaning/inspecting is also important.
The M&R website is fancy and informative, but I have a difficult time differentiating between the presses. It seems like each machine has 3 or 4 versions.
So simple equation.... MHM X-Treme = M&R ???
I know everyone is going to break down the "service" and "parts" ect. But I know all that. All I am looking for is which press is the most comparable.
Thank you.
Favorite phrase when people find out you are a screen printer-
"Oooooooo, you print shirts? That must be fun!"
If they only knew!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
They must have bought BOTH of theirs (yeah, that's 2 of them) used I guess... because they look older than the 2m's. But I'm sure you aren't misleading and I'm sure the 2m was doing it first!
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
The "blueballer" term needs to be put to rest. The way I see it, you are the only person perpetuating the term and the last two press's that you have been selling are both painted BLUE. So with that, calling someone a blue baller doesn't make sense anymore , wink wink =). To be fare, then Anatol guys would be Redballers, Pintex guys would be Blueballers, MHM guys would be Blueballers, RPM guys would be Tanballers, Tas guys would be Tanballers, Marcodi guys would be Redballers, and hey now we got the Mustang guy who is now a Blueballer. Even the Chinese knockoffs are blue, they couldn't paint it another color, come on =). I'd love to have a bright/lemon yellow press with chrome and black, now that would be freekin cool. At least workhorse went a little original and did the Greenmachine =). Hey I'm sure the mustang is great, it looks great, and from Alan's reports his 2M press, same thing different color, is a great press, just like a lot of other ones out there. It all boils down, for me, on reliability of service if and when it's needed.
Oh yeah the Javlin guys, make fun all you want, there are a lot of them out there making a ton of money with their machines, they are Blackballers =)
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Go straight to the source, not only does M&R have a large tech staff they also have great sales reps. Speak with them explain what your needs are and see if they have what you need pretty simple and will avoid the nonsense that may occur here.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
I am thinking the BlueBaller term is more about the hype behind the M&R and then when you are finally to get this anticipated piece you are disappointed in its performance and you are left with BlueBalls because it just prints shirts nothing exciting about it, just a shirt printer, blah.
Where companies like Marcodie, MHM, 2M and it's Mustang have something new and exciting to use and experience, the M&R designs or just old and outdated but it is kind of sad that a company has been around as long as M&R and in just under a decade 2M has developed a machine that M&R can compete against. It really is sad :(
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
I know that the Gauntlet line will as well as the Challenger line. Not sure if the Sportsman will print that big. This is a good question and I for one would like to know the answer from someone at M&R. The Challenger 3 is a great press but not knowing the cost of the X-Type I cannot answer which press competes.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
The MHM X-type certainly look stronger than the M&R
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
How does it look stronger? Based on what!
It looks like a Schenk or Hebbecker influence.
I am confused! Is the poster a collector of machines,
Or a printer? Don't mean to ruffle feathers.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
I don't know about all of that, but in the end, we are printing t-shirts, that's what the end result is all about. I mean, you find me a press that can print a shirt, bake a pizza, and smoke a pork loin all while trading stocks, and balancing the national budget, now I'll pass out, but aren't all presses really just for printing t-shirts, jackets, ect? I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I went to my buddies shop in Orlando last month, saw his Challenger 3 up close and personal while they were setting up, breaking down multiple jobs, there is nothing out dated about that machine. This is a shop that isn't having to run a dozen machines while only charging $.35 cents a shirt to print up to 12 colors either. They are knocking out highend work. It's a serious machine. I've also been at a shop that runs a 16 color MHM Syncro4000, another serious machine. Lot's of features at the heads, but with all that, the press operator never leaves the control panel, so features aside, the main thing about that machine that always has it's turn on, is it's lifting heads. Havn't seen the 2m upclose, but I trust Alan and he loves the performance of it. All and all, we know it's your personal agenda to knock M&R and that's cool, that's your choice. If their machines were so bad, they wouldn't be still rocking them out, what is it, 6 machines a day at the Illinois factory. It's hard to knock that. Time always tells. Like I said, I'm sure the mustang is a great machine though, like the RPM, but painted blue, it looks very well engineered. not to sure about the control panel, but maybe more stable that a touchscreen for the dirty work environment and all, not sure how it can handle oversized or jumbo/all over printing though, but then again not everyone is doing that format. The only time my balls were left blue from my press was when someone came here, spent the day with me, made adjustments to it only for me to find out later on after he was gone that a couple of the heads were not tightened back down the way there before and we had to go back through and straighten everything back out. No biggy though. We got it and our balls are back to normal. =)
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Why is that 10 color x-type missing two print heads, making it an 8/12? They couldn't put the other two heads on before the promo pic?
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
probably for flashes, but, I'd still want the heads and ability to move the flashes around if need be. Looks cool and all, but looks like a lot of stuff to break down and expensive to replace when it does. just my opinion
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
I'm not a collector, I'm just in the last stages of buying a new press. I figured before I pulled the trigger on one I would see what was equivalent from M&R since everyone raves about them so much. I didn't want to talk with the local rep because I do not care for him all that much. I was looking for a wide range of input so I hit up the forum....
Favorite phrase when people find out you are a screen printer-
"Oooooooo, you print shirts? That must be fun!"
If they only knew!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Also, there is a video up of it on youtube, a good point to be made. Anyone who has done any oversized printing knows that your biggest challenge on press is dealing with the pressure over the seams. I can't see how any of the mhm models can conquer that issue. I know from watching the recent M&R plant tour that Rich did, you see them building print heads for an Alpha for oversized printing, and he shows how the re-design that head specifically for oversized printing by placing the chopper cylinders right over the outer seam. Huuuuuuuuuuuuge game changer for someone looking at presses that have the ability to do larger print formats. To me, the only seriously cool feature about the MHM press is the fact that the print arms can be raise out of your way, that's really the only feature that always grabs my attention, but, buying a sophisticated machine, built in another country and soley rep'd by only 1 company with only a couple techs to cover the entire US is very scary. I'm sure the machines are built very well and run great, but like anything, you will eventually need help and any sized business knows that they need to think ahead and know that they are investing in equipment backed by a company that will be there. Even if you buy M&R from a dealership, you still have direct contact and service with the manufacturer. Everyone has seen in this past year or so that buying a techy piece of gear from and small US based office, that is actually built in Europe can be a disaster if you have an issue. I know we can't bank our business on anything like that. Not to mention, the way this economy has been the last few years, why wouldn't anyone here in the US want to totally support a US based manufacturer, especially the same people who are always complaining that we printers lose out on so much over seas'd outsourcing. Same thing applies to screen printing equipment. We aren't talking cars, or motorcycles, or tv's, we are talking about, "Our" industry, maybe a little USA unity can help strengthen the industry. Sorry just my Friday afternoon dribble, but bottom line, sitting back and watching everyone go back and forth for the past year and a half about what machine to buy, bla bla bla, the people who tried ended up turning to M&R to bail them out and M&R bailed them out because that's what they do, support the screen printers, bottom line.
Thanks for all the support Rich!! We surely appreciate it!
Mike and Niki
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Price of the press, film positioning unit, flashes, crating, ect. is a bit north of 100K...
Favorite phrase when people find out you are a screen printer-
"Oooooooo, you print shirts? That must be fun!"
If they only knew!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Take it from the guy who made the worst deal in 2011... ME!
Make a list of pros and cons and pick the one that works for you. I wanted to switch brands and it cost me around 150k, 80k was just stolen and the rest was on unproven equipment with no support or parts , just one fat a s s liar!
I ended up buying M&R and have had zero problems . Good Luck!!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
I can understand a major purchase like this!
I think you are on a fishing expedition, by some of the statements you,
have made, I could be wrong,but I doubt it. You already own two autos,
from two good manufacturers. How many people on this board, are you
going to get, that have the new MHM that you are interested in? Nada!
Serious MHM buyers do not come on digitsmith for answers.(my opinion)
You don't like your M&R rep? The owner of M&R is on here daily,and I presume
you havn't taken time to reach out to him with your issues! Based on his postings, I haven't seen him bite someone for wanting to do business with his
company! And you have given very limited info on your needs! Why so?
Good Comparisons on Products are Needed! But, Is is very important to compare
more than just the looks, of any machine.It should be done in a straight, foward, honest,method.
Again,not wanting to ruffle your feathers,
winston
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
You are right, M&R has a few good products, although Mustang is way better :D
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
I think a guy should be able to come on an industry forum and ask tough questions, even if the majority don't agree, isn't that what a forum is really about?
Not a bunch of guys huddled together protecting their narrow view of an industry!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
You are exactly right, you are just getting experiences and feed back by those who have asked the same exact questions as you are asking now, and were led if not almost led down , "other's" paths. It's not about hey man, buy this or you aren't cool, it's more like, hey bro, take the advice of those who have tried the other flavor and got sick to their stomachs, only to realize the should have stuck with the flavor that is there for you. Now that being said, I personally am speaking from a US based standpoint. Sure if you live in Europe, you may have a different view since the other companies are based there and probably have more support, or if you were in Australia, you would more than likely feel way comfortable going with TAS since that's their home base of operation. Either way , I've been on the other side saying hey I have Blue gear, but am not a "Blue Baller", but now that more time has gone by, and I'ver personally seen and experienced some of what the other side has, or tried to offer, Blue all the way. I need to know when I go to sleep at night that I can open my shop the next day and have piece of mind that the company backing my gear hasn't switched to a different flavor for the next month. M&R is there for their customers, bottom line! Nobody should be bashing you for asking questions, they are all good, we've all made them, but at the end of the day, everyone wants to help you make the best choice that you can make, even if you chose another brand, these guys would all still support you, that's been proven.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
As long as they don't buy from you, Robert, they will be ok!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Hey, I got no beef with you being a "Blue Baller" or a "BrownTurder" or a "Red Lover" or any other name people can come up, my beef is with the idea that everyone on here is always accused of having an ulterior motive to some grand agenda. If this guy thinks MHM is better than M&R then when he puts his hard earned money down to buy an MHM that is his choice. Sure people think we are nuts for not buying M&R but we have always wanted an RPM ever since Alan posted pictures and video years ago and now that the 2M people are building a better version in the Mustang we are going to strongly consider it, no matter how many time the owner of M&R or you for that matter call the machine a SCAM or CRAP or anything other than a really nice machine that people love and love to hate the guy associated with it.
Just my 2 sense of 2 cents.
We think SCAM and CRAP are funny acronyms:
SCAM Screen Churning Automatic Machines
CRAP Controlled Registering Automatic Press
We still might buy an M&R but just like this guy weighing his options between M&R and MHM we are going to investigate the pros and cons balance between M&R and the Mustang. Hopefully you guys can respect our viewpoint, but if you can't then my other post is even more accurate.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Any machine you buy will be a good machine, they all are, it all boils down to what you expect in the way of support. Ask around the forums, the dial always points in a certain direction for the best support with solid equipment, best of luck to you either way!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Hmmm no ne here smells a ascertain rat??????
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Respectfully Mike, I disagree. There are some turds out there, and some lemons from those you wouldn't expect. Choose from only 3-4 good manufacturers and you'll likely be fine, with the occasional lemon from at least one of those 4. This is the truth and for any of you that want to think that us forum cowboys are just trying to stir s h I t up, there is only one company that you can buy a press from and know that 100% you will get a very solid machine along with the best service after the sale. The other good manufacturers fall very short in most every other category after the quality and features of the press. It's really that simple. The competition builds decent machines, but machines break down and have issues so what's going to happen when that does? You might get taken care of 70-80% of the time with several of the manus or 99% of the time with número UNO.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
You have a lot more time in this then I do Alan, so you've seen and heard a lot more for sure! I spent the last 5 years talking to different press operators, shop owners ect about their gear, lots of different brands, everyone running successful print shops, doing great work, but with that said, and I'm big enough to admit that I looked elsewhere too, my final choice is M&R. I looked elsewhere purely being a cheap-O. Letting someone else in the industry tell me that you should be able to get more for less. That would be nice, but bottom line, you get what you pay for. When I say that no matter what you buy, you'll get a good machine. I mean just that. Everything is nice when it is brand new, but, what is built to last is a whole different story. The proof is in the pudding as they say and anyone can look around and see what's running in shops that is up to 20 years old or so. I bet it's blue =}. There are cool machines out there, but when you are talking about spending over 50,000 bucks for something, at least me, I want to know it's worth 50k. Anyone looking at machines and has been doing the research will get a better appreciation for what they do at M&R and how they care about what they do by looking up the factory tour videos that have been recently posted. I now know why Rich takes such a personal approach to every situation. From a guy with a sidewinder manual, to a guy with a 20 color Challenger 3, he cares about the equipment running the way he intended it to. You are probably right Alan about lemons and machines that don't make it past the break in point, I'm just thankful we didn't end up in one of those situations. We were allllllmost talked into trading our M&R gear for pintex stuff a couple years back and after seeing how things ended up for most of the guys who went that route, I'm glad we stayed with what we have. It gave us another couple of years to learn more, see more, and appreciate how solid and reliable our machine is. It's paid off in 2 more months, clear sailing from there, and then, when the business warrants it, we will add, but until then, we will keep fine tuning as we go. If I had to, at the very least, which I have done, is hop on the M&R forum with a quick question and Rich himself answers within an hour, most of the time, 5-10 minutes, but an hour tops and they have been minor issues, but I do hear about guys with software issues on their MHM machines, or Anatol machines that sometimes wait a whole day to get a call back and then hear that it may take a few days to express ship a part from Europe to fix, that would be a nightmare to a small shop relying on that 1 piece of gear. Either way, good luck to the guy, if he is even shopping from a press and it's not just an alias, if it's an alias, it's pretty sad for that person to still be in this low chapter of their life and career.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Well my original intention was NOT to start a mud slinging fest here, but it seems like that is all that can consistently be done. That is too bad. This post will probably be long and I will sling some mud myself. I apologize a head of time.
I posted here twice for serious questions. First time a got a few answers that were relevant, the rest was like grade school kids calling each other names. I posted here because ever since the good old days of TSPMB there has not been a good forum. Yes, I could go to the M&R forum and hear wonderful things about M&R and hear a lot of one sided information(kinda like what has happened here). T-shirtforums.com was a option, they are 600% nicer. But I feel like(please do not get me wrong here, there is some great information there and some true professionals from around the world, and I respect Rodney for what he has done there) on there I would be talking to guys printing on a 1 station 2 color tabletop press in their moms basement. That or someone who is going to "make it" with their new clothing line, they just need the promo code for jiffyshirts.com again. While I don't intend to knock those people, good for them for trying something. They are just not the "experienced" user I am looking for opinions or facts from. This site seems to do a high volume of classified posts with some nice equipment, so I figured some of those users might use the forum also. Guess not, as I have been informed that "Serious MHM buyers do not come on digitsmith for answers." Sorry about that, can you please point me in the right direction then? That way I can let you get back to bickering here. Here are the facts and details, it seems if everything is not spelled out to a T the ASSumptions start running wild here.
-What I wanted to know(thought I was somewhat clear originally but guess not) Does M&R make a auto press with AC heads, servo indexing, print area of 20inches x 28inches, and head/print arm high lift for cleaning/inspecting.
-I do NOT own a M&R anything, never said I did. I did say "We currently have a M&R/Anatol/every other company style auto." Because 95% of the presses you see here in the US are the same style, print arms stay stationary, print head and table move. While there are HUGE differences with how service and the companys are run, the concept of the presses are all very similar.
-Is my name/identity a alias? Yes, sort of. I have not given exact name and details because as soon as that goes out the sales reps are all over you. Already had that experience, I do not have time for it again. Plus, it is VERY annoying.
-I could of asked my local M&R rep these questions yes. However the rep that works directly for M&R(I'm guessing a regional sales rep/account manager) that some time comes out with the local guy who's company sells M&R, has bad mouthed other equipment company's on numerous occasions. Don't get me wrong, there are some horrible companies out there, I have dealt with one. But I find it tacky and poor ethics/skill to bad mouth the competition. Let your product do the selling. Now my local rep who's company sells M&R is a very nice guy and I can't imagine him harming a fly. That makes it hard for me to deal with him a lot of the time. He will randomly show up and have a very soft sell and want to chat. That doesn't sound so bad but, he is so nice I have a hard time telling him to "leave, I don't have time to chat we are very busy and please don't come back unless I call you or we schedule a time."
I knew Rich checked out this board so he might of chimed in and answered my question, after all this was a question about a $100K+ potential sale. Well, I was right- kind of. While Rich did chime in, he simply said something about how the MHM did not look like it could handle a print size as advertised. Oh, and how could I forget, there was the very professional crack about me being some kind of a collector... Thanks for answering my question though! This brings me to my next thing....
-M&R may be great, but I very much dislike their tactics and methods. I have experienced some of their reps at shows to be very cocky. A lot of times they will underhandedly slam competitors- once again let your product do the talking. This is understandable, as I have heard Rich do it many times(off the top of my head, in some of the factory tour videos it happens). The last thing that drives me crazy about M&R is it seems like they are always suing someone. I HATE that. America uses the courts to settle recess fights. Rich, please do not take this as a personal attack on your character, I am sure you are a great guy, you obviously know how to keep customers happy and produce a nice product. While I do not doubt or disagree that M&R makes one heck of a machine, probably in the top 3 if not higher, and their service from popular opinion(which in this case I believe) is the best- worldwide. I know a guy that is the equipment buyer for a large printing company in Vietnam who prints for a bunch of the big mall stores, he wouldn't buy anything but a M&R(I don't remember exactly how many autos he has 10 or so I believe). A lot of the "big" shops out there run M&R, I know. It is usually difficult to find complaints about their machines or service.
With all of that said, there is only one reason I considered(it was in 4th place on my list) buying a M&R. Made in the USA. It is supporting a lot of jobs in the heartland, and I am one of the few out there that will pay a bit more for some good old US merchandise- as long as we are comparing apples to apples.
Here is where everyone will chime in about support... I have two machines that the company that manufacturers them probably can't even spell "support". Because of this I have had to adapt. I am very fortunate to have 4 very close friends that are various types of engineers, a relative that has over 35 years of ironwork experience, and a father that has been in charge of overseeing manufacturing of components with tolerances in the realm of .0001 of a inch. Those coupled with a great independent local tech that can work on close to anything, I have been able to have any problems solved rather quickly without manufacturer support. I am not saying I would turn away support from a manufacturer by any means, it would be a welcomed change! But I have been able to make it so far.
I don't doubt this post will draw some "reactions" you guys can have fun with that. I don't intend to get into any of the bickering or respond unless there is an ACTUAL response to my original question. I'll try to check out other boards, heck maybe I'll get lucky and find one where "serious MHM buyers" can answer a question! Rich- if you guys have a machine that fits my needs let me know, I'm interested. Then you can make me a believer, yes, I'll drink the Kool-Aid. Plus I won't have to use this stupid "alias" anymore. You will have my name, location, phone number, federal tax ID number and probably some other things. Seems like you need to provide that sort of stuff on this site to get any sort of answer...
Favorite phrase when people find out you are a screen printer-
"Oooooooo, you print shirts? That must be fun!"
If they only knew!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
The industry has become one sided look around all the large ink suppliers sell M&R if you go on any industry forum and discuss anything negative about M&R you will be attacked! Why? because it is not in the best financial interest of "the majority" for you to be allowed to speak negatively about M&R.
This forum has the opportunity to be better than TSPMB ever was but unfortunately it has went the way of the school girl in a blue dress. {said with a stern italian mafia voice} M&R is the only way to print a t-shirt, got it? GOOD now that "that is out of the way" What would you like to know? we are here to help
Yes they do, it is called the Alpha 8 it doesn't lift up like the MHM drive assembly but it does lift the entire head and screen. If you are interested in an alternative to the Alpha 8 google Marcodie. I would post some videos of their machine but this post would then be deleted or edited, apparently you are not allowed to promote products other than M&R here. Try posting some YouTube videos of other brands and watch what happens, you will automatically be accused of being the one that is not to be mentioned, really pathetic how much control M&R has here.
You are right they are all similar but some are better than others, 2M builds the best machine from a USA company and they are all fully assembled right here in Chicago, I am certain this will now get deleted.
M&R has created this type of environment within our industry and you can thank Rich Hoffman directly for that, the same nonsense you witness on these forums is exponentially magnified out in the street during the sales process the trade shows are the worst for this type of tactics.
Well, they usually accuse you of being "you know who" so you got off easy "this time"
You owe it to yourself to look at 2M they are great people that absolutely stand behind their product, and they by far build the most durable machine in the world. I have heard they are going to offer a 5 year 5 million print common sense warranty that covers everything on the machine.
Marcodie would be a company to strongly consider as well, they are ex M&R and ex MHM guys so they have produced a machine that is suppierior to both and it has a really unique combined squeegee floodbar apparatus.
Sorry for being so blunt but I am a RenAgade from the John Wayne days!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Welcome to the wonderful environment that Robert Barnes has created.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Robert just recommended 2m (mustang) maybe you should ask him what their actual delivery times are, not project Ted delivery times but actual. If he tells the truth it would be a first.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
For Someone Who Ask Alot of Questions, You Seam To Have ALL The
Facts Already. After Much Thought, I Am Going To Turn You On To The
"Best Press For You," You Need A Press With "Better Technology" With
Parts Made In europe! The "Heartland Of America" will understand. You need
A Printex! Google It! Lots of happy Customers. I Can't remember his name.
But, YOU Probably Already Know him! In Fact he Is Probably Very Close To
you. Happy Fishing!:eek:
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
First and foremost I made no comment about you being a collector. I responded telling you a Sportsman EX has a 20X20 image area and I think it is the machine MHM is targeting with their X machine. Stating facts sometimes makes people think you are arrogant or slamming competition. That is not the case. Watching people day in and day out get burned or ripped off it becomes very hard to stand by and not say anything. Your question to me is slanted toward MHM and as such cannot be answered positively. I see this in many goverment contracts when the buying group want a certain piece of equipment. Example: the press must have solid aluminum pallets with cam style locking levers and coated with rubber. The software must offer Revolver software. The press cannot be higher than 5 feet 9" in any area. Get the picture. You are specifying a size that is a standard Challanger size and heads that lift from the screen. The press you are questioning matches a Challanger size but in my opinion does not compare to that series and we make no press with a aluminum head tube that lifts from the screen. Not being disrespectful here at all. Just can't give you the answer you are looking for. The Xpress is new to the new owners at MHM and as such there is not much to compare to. All I will say and then no more is regardless of who you buy your machine from get a money back guarantee in writing and if they won't do that you really need to question why. There I go slipping in a M& R only spec again.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
few thoughts I'd like to point out.
-I have NEVER heard of an unhappy MHM user!
-I know about half a dozen of them, many running several presses (as many as 9) and not one wishes they had something else. Almost all had other equipment before switching to MHM.
-support for MHM is pretty good actually and getting better. It is not at M&R level, but you will talk to a tech in 15-30 min and have the part next morning if needed. They have walked me through troubleshooting the one part that failed in three years and we had the replacement next day.
-CHIII seems to be closest to the MHM presses, but I don't think the heads lift up and don't know the print size. That should be easy to find. CHIII is getting great reviews.
-check out theshirtboard.com. More MHM users there than other places. (sorry Marc, I know it's bad form for me to plug the other board. Please forgive me!)
and finally, I am a die hard MHM user and at the same time a die hard Richard Hoffman fan.
My choice of press is very subjective, I just happen to prefer VW to Ford or Audi/BMW to Caddy/Lincoln, but that is a personal preference (grew up in Europe). What kind of car do you drive? That might help answer your question. . .
- My suggestion would be to find a shop with an MHM and see what the difference is all about.
-from what I can tell, you should be happy with either.
pierre
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Are you saying that the MHM customers that have had to replace the main shaft on there machines are happy? If so, that is great news! The guy in the Pittsburgh rea hade to spend almost $10,000 dollars to have his fixed, but if he had the main shaft the next day from Europe, now that is some service!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Alan is 100% right, 2M has the best product and the best support & warranty, now if they can only get their lead times down below 12 weeks!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
every press manufacturers will have presses that break down. There is no way around that. That is a FACT! What is in question is how often does it happen and how well it is handled when it does happen.
From,what I have heard (and please remember that as an MHM user I am biased), ppl that ran many different style presses say that MHM is the most reliable. I can't prove it and the info obviously comes from ppl running the MHM's, so again take it for what it's worth.
Second, the service is getting pretty good. see previous post. If he got a shaft in from Europe the next day, that's pretty good. Not sure why they would have to fly it in from there as they have a warehouse full of parts in US, but OK. He still got the part next day.
The final point is, even though he had to buy a new shaft, is he happy with the press and would he buy it again? I can't speak for the guy in Pittsburgh, but I would.
pierre
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Mr Barnes...M & R purchased their first CNC machine somewhere around 95'...give or take a couple of years. So that means they were about 12-15 years ahead of 2M machining their presses....so I guess that means that 2M is following M & R's lead...too funny!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Tell us this Pierre, why is it that people are not allowed to speak the truth on this forum or your forum or any other forum in our industry?
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Another Barnes alias. Buyers beware!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Nope, you are wrong (again) check the date of the Mustang video on YouTube and compare it the the M&R video date, you will find that the M&R factory tour videos are a reactionary measure on the war against truth (and Barnes)
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Censorship is always part of your plan huh?
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Warning unsuspecting screenprinters about you ripping them off is the plan Barnes!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
So the Mustang is a ripoff?
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Wrong again Mr. Barnes...you are trying to bait and switch here again. The dates on the videos have nothing...let me repeat that in case you are "Hard of Hearing" the dates on the videos have nothing to do with my statement about when M & R first started using a CNC machine to machine presses. They purchased their first large format CNC machine around 1995 (give or take a year or two) and started to machine their presses then. IN fact at the time they bought their first machine there were only two other machines being used at that time. One of the companies was Air Bus (you know...the guys who make airplanes) and I can't remember who the other company was, but M & R was the first company to purchase and use that type of equipment here in the USA. So to be clear...the dates on the videos hve nothing to do with when the CNC machines were first put into use in Screen Printing equipment.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
That is a very interesting story, it is nice to know that M&R using very outdated machines from 1995 were Mustang uses more modern technology and larger CNC tables
Also, based on the video dates M&R is definitely following the lead of the Mustang in creating videos as the original post stated, thank for put some clarity on the situation, Mustang is once again grateful to know it is the lead horse in the race
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Manufacturing plants still use custom made machinery from the turn of the century. The previous century!
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
If I were the person that wants info about MHM I'd talk to some real people and not put any faith in this forum dribble.
Forums are full of misinformation, be careful what you believe.
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Squeegee is right, just ignore the man behind the control panel :p
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
Inkman, have every seen a screw machine set up / running :confused:
Re: Not to ruffle feathers, BUT M&R vs. MHM
So you are saying we should never fly on an Airbus plane because they are outdated planes??? Nice try Buckwheat. Keep trying Mr. Barnes...you can spin & spin and spin, but you can't make gold out of straw. Dates on videos...that one is really weak, but keep trying!
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