RPM Revolution Features

so really,the only difference between this and the mustang is the servo lift/lower, painted blue, different name, and sold through different company? These are really nice machines!

The main difference is the lift and how the squeegee/flood flags are set. RPM is 100% digital. Stroke is only a number in a program and not a physical front/rear sensor flag that slides on a rail. The main benefit of being digital stroke distance is accuracy of the stroke, ability to ramp up/down power as it approaches its digital flag whereas the mustang and every other print carriage assembly with sliding stops for front and rear stroke do not know when they are approaching the stop flag until it triggers it.

The last benefit and where these programmable virtual stop flags would really shine, is repeatability/job saving for later recall. This would require the machine to store the job settings for recall at a later date. Load screens with a triloc, ink screens, open a setup file for the job on the machine and run your test prints.

From my understanding though, M&R currently holds the patent for a "screen printing apparatus with the ability to store data", so the RPM revolution can't actually store the settings to a file to recall at a later date until that patent expires or M&R licenses that feature to them. I think M&R actually owns the digital stroke rights as well and licensed them to RPM? Not an attack on M&R and I could be wrong on these accounts as I've accrued them over time searching patents and talking with people.

So, there is more to it than just servo lift!

Hands down the most user friendly machines on the market!!!!!

Muster, thanks for the information! I wonder if RPM is considering the servo lift/lower, or if that is an change that would end up changing more than just the lifter itself and cause more headache, just curious. Since I've met Alan, I've watched his vids and chatted with him several times at how the functionality of his machine has huge benefits for a smaller operation with limited staff. His use of the RPM has shown it's a rock solid machine. I'm sure if it had flaws he would have put them out there. I wonder why so many companies have gone to full control at all heads and M&R hasn't yet. It is a pain to have to constantly run around a machine and stop what you are doing if you are only 1 or 2 people operating a press, where as with head controls, things can keep going and if you have to go to say, head 6 and you see an issue, you don't have to run back to the main panel or relay verbally to someone. Set up too, the full control at the heads looks nice. Not trying to start another mine is better than theirs battle, just as someone operating a press daily, these functions would help my stress level drop throughout the day on multiple set ups.

In M&R's defense, while they don't have FULL control at each head, I think they do have functionality that accomplishes the same features as some other manufacturers. It is my understanding that you have to put the machine into a different mode from the main control panel before these functions are enabled at each head because the functions utilize the existing buttons that would otherwise operate (in normal printing mode) as labeled? Never run an M&R though, so someone else can chime in lol!

You are correct, and it depends on which model, right now we run a 9 color Diamond back, so it does have a nice touch screen main controller, but very limited beyond that, not complaining, it's what we chose at the time due to budget. Models above, sportsman Ex and up, maybe the new servo index Diamond backs, not sure on them have the table up down button at each head and the index release. The C3 has a knob at each head to index since it's a belt driven indexer, that makes that nice to be able to actually index either direction or half index from each head. I'm not sure, maybe it's a plc vs computer OS, a little out of my knowledge, but I'm assuming they stay PLC because of it's reliability and very proven in the field. I know the newer Sportsman models now have a touch screen vs the toggles at control panel, nice upgrade there for sure. Now add some lifting heads like MHM, and put that all together and have a nice package. I guess you when making your choice you have to boil it down and pick what best fits your business.

I don't understand how M&R can hold the patent on the ability to store jobs. I mean, these things are computers, that's what computers can do.

Maybe I don't understand it correctly. It just seems like saying "commodore owns the patent on writing to the floppy drive so no other computer can have a floppy drive". Again, maybe I don't understand it.

Rich can you clear this up?

M&R acquired Elexon's assets at auction when the went under.

http://www.google.com/patents/US5592877?dq=screen+printing+data&ei=20RTUJj-F47o8QTxuIFw

I was really wanting that data storage feature when we were looking for a press and right about the time we were buying is when Rick had to stop working on the feature addition. It would have been very cool to load a specific job's settings and everything just be set. I thought MHM's had that feature?

I'm a huge proponent of having as many functions at the printhead as possible. I do not want to walk back to the main control panel for anything while setting a job up. The RPM was exactly what I was looking for at the time. I cannot even begin to tell you how much time we've saved over the last 3 years over our old centurian. And the centurian had plenty of features, touchscreen main control panel and a decent amount at each printhead. There are a lot of things that we've implemented and done to be able to do twice as much work as we did 4-5 years ago, and the press is a big part of that, along with higher tension screens, better mesh count selection and knowledge.

Digital print stroke control is a feature I like, but I'd like it a hell of a lot more if I had the data storage ability. Proxy sensors are fine, easy, fast, reliable, but in my experience, they are the most replaced part on the centurian and it's the only part we've had fail on our RPM. The RPM only has a few proxy sensors on it, two for the table up/down and one for the servo indexer return, and I'm kind of glad there aren't 2 more for every print head. Print stroke control via proxy sensor is not a feature that is a deal breaker one way or the other, if our next press has it or uses encoders, it won't really matter to me either way. The CH III uses proxy's right? :)

But Gilligan, it may be a common knowledge/prior art type feature for most computers, it is an automatic screen printing machine over everything else so I think it's fair game to patent that type of a feature as it pertains to the apparatus that is using it. Although there are some questions over where and when that feature was first implemented on a press, maybe a graphics press of some sort had that ability, I can't remember, I seem to remember there being a "prior art" argument on the data storage patent. Whatever, M&R legally holds the rights and that's that.

Ya Robert made that argument, so did Rick I think. But the reality is the court says M&R is right, so I guess that is all that matters. I don't blame them for protecting something like that.

Please post a link where "the court says M&R is right" :confused:

2M wants to move in the direction of total digital control from the main panel and at the printhead ;)

I hope it's better than the other "all electric" options out there. I guess it's a big deal for some shops to have an air compressor but I think the fact that most machines have air requirements speaks volumes.

Well, sounds like 2M really wants to move their technology forward, too bad the recent spamming here caused them to lose out on some promoting of their product.

Didn't take him long to disrespect Marcs updated forum rules.

Hey Alan, do you think there will be an effect on RPM's factory production? For instance, RPM has a decent sales quarter, but some mustangs are ordered as well, do you think 2m will have an issue meeting deadlines that sales rep's will promis their customers?

It looks like delivery times are through the roof on the mustang so I'd imagine it's the same with RPM. 25 week delivery times won't fly in this market. I'm not telling them something they don't already know, but it remains to be seen if they'll do something about it. You can have the best product in the world, but if you can't deliver it within a reasonable time frame then it might as well be a piece of junk, it won't matter. No matter how much I liked the RPM, if Rick would have told me "well, it looks like it's going to be 16-20 weeks"...I would have gone elsewhere. We got our press in less than 5 weeks, but I think they had a deal fall through and the press was already in the states being put together. The other shops here in town with RPM's got their machines in around 3-4 months I think.

2M wants to be the first company to offer digital controlled squeegee & floodbar pressure ... plus with this servo type control the squeegee can have a print pressure profile to add special effects :p

Yeah ... Apparently only negative spamming of the new 2M product is allowed here ... any effort to combat the negativity is deleted (funny how that works in some industries)

Good News about Elexon patents though ... we are a little more than 36 months away from the patent filing date Oct 25, 1995 ... However ... Elexon did throw this technology out there quite sometime ago (yes there is prior art as well)

Cucumber Way

If Barnes's technolgy is so cutting edge and the best, why can't he sell more than 6 presses a year? If the new technology was all that M&R would have had it or bought the right's, its not so they stick with what works.

If you don't consider posting 80 videos in one day spamming then by all means, you must not have spammed!!! It really is funny isn't it? How could someone be treated like that for no reason? Yeah, you got hammered when you posted, but spamming the forum doesn't make it right. You have to stop being a prick to not be treated like one, it's a two-way street Roberto. A professional courtesy was given and you once again ruined it yourself, it wasn't Brandt, JMD, Gilligan or any other guys that ruined it for you...just you. Just move on and forget about this, you're simply not cut out to promote via a forum where the members are educated on your past...that's all I can say. You cannot take the criticism for long enough to gain any respect from anyone and get on people's good side, you don't have it in you so why even go down this road again.

The good news about Robert is, much like this industry, there is no real place for him here on this or any relative industry forum.

http://www.digitsmith.com/f18-announcement3.html

The one the people that keep claiming "prior art" are scared to file. Maybe because they know they wont win. Interesting. What's a matter, you yella.

I don't know if it's just not worth a fight, or everyone recognizes the patent owner as legal and legit, but I did see an ad in an old, old trade rag with a press that had data storage. I just can't remember who made the machine, whether it was an older Advance, Elexon, MHM or what manufacturer. I was told the magazine was early 90's but without seeing that part with my own eyes it's purely speculation and not really worth arguing about. Look, the feature would benefit some presses, others not at all, and some couldn't use the feature because of the technology running them, it is what it is and it hasn't been a factor in anyone's buying decision in a long time I don't think. For a press that stores settings digitally, I think we all agree it would be a pretty cool feature to have. We have a lot of repeat jobs, some of our customers just cannot see the savings by ordering 1000 shirts at once instead of 100 every month so we are constantly setting up a job that we've done a few weeks before. Typing in some numbers to recall those job settings would save some time for sure. It helps a lot on the Sprint International when we go from cotton tees to tote bags, back to 100% poly then safety vests.

M&R is smart enough to protect patents they own even if they do not currently use them, the point is eventually you may implement them on a new release different technology etc.

Not sure if this is a full list but I don't see anything "memory"
http://www.patentgenius.com/assignee/MRPrintingEquipmentInc.html

Alan, unless I'm missing something, what good would data storage do (I'm presuming data storage primarily of screen location/registration like I see on the MHM 4000 (don't think it's on the standard S Type?)) unless you catalogued and re-used the same screens. This isn't the case in most shops I know of, primarily because of tension loss in screens (and because of expensive retensionables being used -- can't afford 2,000 of them to sit there in a screen library) and secondarily because of limited space. So, aside from being able to re-register a job that's been used before on the exact same screen/exact same exposure, thus securing the exact same location on the screen as the original job, what meaningful good is data storage? Plugging in digital pressure, angle, speed and off contact, etc. is so easy if you have those parameters written on the jobs folder, that that's the only thing I see data storage helping with. Am I missing the obvious here?

Brian

look under Elexon maybe?

Here's the patent history break down:
http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/q?db=pat&pat=5592877

I'm not sure about other printers's areas, but I know for us, the ambient conditions play a huge factor in settings. I run a certain customer's 8 color design every two weeks. Every two weeks settings change pretty drastically, even if I'm using a set of screens from the previous run, it could be humid as a swamp here that day, and the next run hot and dry, and plastisol likes to do it's own thing sometimes. I'm not sure how "total" recall of settings would do for us, but I do know that I am looking forward to the day when we step into the realm of more print head control, ac heads, servo index, quartz flashes ect. Don't get me wrong all of those digital settings are cool and I'm sure for some shops it might be a big deal, but not for everyone.

A 7 color job all with different print stroke lengths, the off contact, and flood/print speeds it would save a few minutes. You are right that it takes very little time when you get to know the press to make those changes, I can do print & flood speed, off contact and print length all within 15 seconds tops per screen if I really wanted to. It's almost more of a convenience feature, like the MHM automatic pallet unlocking feature. It takes me literally one second to release our pallets from the print arm, but if a machine did it for me, even better. Oh yeah, flash settings for a particular tough substrate would be nice to have just pop up from recall. I hate when we forget to write the specifics on the job folder, which means we'd probably forget to add the job to the data storage as well on occasion.

Muster, what do you run?

yes, the flash settings for quartz would be nice, with me now and the radiants, it's a game of how long to heat up the boards to be able to run at a nice speed and get the proper flash. I am pushing the envelop doing 8 color printing with a 9 color machine and 1 flash, but we get it done. MHM pallet releases, now we are talking, that is too awesome, lifting heads, love that too, and never having to worry about pallet leveling, that's another attraction. Speaking of that 8 color bi-monthly run, gotta get back out there and line it up, working all day tomorrow and Sunday for a big rush order for them. If I had a 16 color with a few flashes, I'd rock that out reeeeeally fast =). In good time. 2 more payments and it's all paid off, that, makes me reeeally happy =)

Wow, looking over all the patent crap, thank god for lawyers in that area.

10/12 anatol trident servo w/ a/c heads. The controls at the head are important and save a ton of time. I can't imagine walking back and forth for test print or not having the half-index feature to check each screen alignment.

RPM has done a great job bringing digital technology into presses. The only thing that bugs me (and Alan a little) is the ability to control the flash from the main panel.

I think the job storage data will eventually make it out into the market. One problem though is the attention to detail and skillset required to run a smart press jumps up a little bit unless the boss/manager saves the settings after each setup and loads them up before each run. It would take a new mentality to look at the job sheet and load a setup file BEFORE even loading the screens. A learning curve for the current generation, probably second nature to the next!

at my company we are all about efficiency, we hunt down anything to save time as much as we can.

I'd like to see machines have job parameters down to stroke lengths, flash times and power settings, pressure settings, speed settings all recallable for a reorder.

MHM can save job settings though not pressure, stroke length, and some other things. We use an ipad to record our data but often enough folks forget to input their jobs and once and a white a complicated job comes back and we have insufficient records. The ipad has taken us away from paper records but doesn't take away the human forgetfullness and that's where a computer can be so useful, imagine a machine that won't let you start the next job without saving the specs from the last job...specs saved to a central place, a server or whatever that can be constantly backed up. This would be a good selling point for us at least, along with the other myriad of time saving features that MHM delivers, I know, another MHM plug but hey, that's why we have MHM's, plain and simple they save time with features that even the laziest press op will have no choice but to use.

I still don't get it... again, maybe I'm just dumb there... but saving settings shouldn't be able to patent. Was being able to adjust squeegee angles patented at first? Could it have been? I mean that seems so rudimentary that it shouldn't be patented.

Oh, starting the car with a push button? You can't do that... we did it first. seems silly.

But I'm not a patent lawyer for sure!

Robert, it's called a discussion. Not everything will be painted all rosy.

It has been said what is good and what is bad... we just didn't put 40 you tube vids in of something that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the discussion.

And as Alan said... posting that much spam in the time frame you did, well, you lost your privileges to do what you wanted to do. If you could have done it in a mature fashion then you wouldn't have.

I applaud Marc, if ANYONE came on here and acted the way that you did it should be removed.

I'd have done it a long time ago. People (you for one) hate on Anatol's "service" (see, I just slighted them right there) but it doesn't get yanked because it's not posted about 400 times in an obvious campaign to try and cause turmoil!

You made the bed, now you have to "lie" in it.

I like being able to see metrics such as OOE Overall Operating Efficiency. Being able to graph and monitor true time and cost by size of runs, by shift and staff members, breakdowns, makeready times, split screens, running out of ink, pinholes or screen repair, runtime speeds. All that analysis can help manage efficiencies and in turn show where your downtime or stoppages come from and where to invest such as training, or maybe screenmaking or change of emulsion, or true costing analysis down to the second. Check out wflow.co.nz to see example.

Nice!