Sell it but cannot SPELL it

Robert Young's picture

Today a client sent in their own design to be digitized... they offer screen printing and embroidery services. As is often the case when they created their corporate logo they did not factor embroidery requirements... so while the design is great for screen printing it would not embroider without being over 9 inches wide... kinda large for a left chest, even here in Texas.

Trying to explain this should not be like pulling teeth, but it often is... they sell it but really have no concept of what is needed for quality... letter sizes, line thicknesses, and don't even bring up thinner 60wt thread as they are already overwhelmed by their COGS and their head may explode!!

To make it all even better they misspelled EMBROIDERED and their logo has EMBROIDERD....... I visited their website and it has been that way for quite a while for them... in the WHO ARE WE tab... That page has 8 misspellings with 2 being right in the first line!! Funny since the page is devoted to explaining how the owner started this company right after graduating college...... ???

Location: 
United States

Modern Embroidery Designer
volant-tech.com
volantfineart.com

minimalist's picture

BJ24 wrote:
Your answer makes no sense. I am not the one putting the design on the hat or picking out the hat. I digitize the design according to their cap frame constraints and what they ask for. I don't tell them what cap to order. That is between them and their customer.

Calm down, I was kidding. A 12" tall flexfit top hat with a flat bill that fit's anyone? Doesn't exist, it was a fictional product and my attempt at sarcasm.

I've done up to 2 3/4 with a barudan on a hat. ZSK goes HAL9000 if you try anything over what's in the travel limit part of the machine software. I tricked it by telling the machine it was sewing a tubular frame (hopefully it will open the pod bay doors when I ask it to). Didn't really like it but it sewed a 2 1/2 " tall design. I'd prefer to tell customers that I can only do the 2x4 deal but they just go somewhere else so sometimes we have to ignore the limits and figure it out.

I'll agree that some people just don't get it as far as embroidery goes. I get a fair amount of parents that want their kid's name on a backpack. When I tell them I'm limited to around 3" wide they get bent even after explaining that the manufacturer really didn't leave me many options with all the small pockets on the front and inside attached to the area in which the embroidery should be.

minimalist's picture

Robert Young wrote:
WAIT! you mean the thread is supposed to go THROUGH the needle?? WOW, no wonder my machine won't sew a lick.

I just use the force. That way you don't even have to turn the machine on. When a customer comes in I wave my hand and say "this isn't the embroidery you're looking for, move along". Helps if they pay first though.

Robert Young wrote:
I agree that a few years ago this could have been very true... but today with YouTube and Search Engines and Wiki options I would think anyone serious could learn quite a lot in a short period of time. The classes at any ISS show would also benefit anyone in the industry.

FYI... you just did it.

He said it seems like a secret society and no one wants to give up any information and you just pointed him to google and youtube without giving any of the information he was asking about. ;)

I know you aren't being a tool and really meant what you said, but I was geeked up hoping to gleam a bit of insight as well from you and not some random search info.

Sorry, but I've googled my butt off and the info is still hard to find and no one wants to talk about it... this thread included. :)

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

Robert Young's picture

BJ24 wrote:
Your answer makes no sense. I am not the one putting the design on the hat or picking out the hat. I digitize the design according to their cap frame constraints and what they ask for. I don't tell them what cap to order. That is between them and their customer.

while I am quite sure there are hats here in Texas that have 12 inch tall embroidery areas... we tend to joke a bit on here to offset our frustration on whatever is going on in the thread at the time...

we will chalk this up to you being in Seattle ... probably hopped up on so much caffeine!! lol

Modern Embroidery Designer
volant-tech.com
volantfineart.com

Robert Young's picture

Gilligan wrote:
FYI... you just did it.

Oops, I guess I did, sorry about that... but I didnt really see an actual question I could answer in his post... I mean what are we talking about?

Minimum letter heights and line thicknesses depend on whether you are too cheap to use thinner 60wt thread and only offer 40wt? lol (kinda kidding, but not really)... also depends on if that lettering is going on a hat or a microfiber left chest, fleece, a sweater... a blanket... which font also determines the size for all these.. It is not difficult but there are a number of factors that go into successful embroidery that are machine , operator, thread, needle and digitizing specific.

Ask a specific question and I am sure there will be specific answers on here.

Modern Embroidery Designer
volant-tech.com
volantfineart.com

minimalist's picture

Gilligan wrote:
FYI... you just did it.

He said it seems like a secret society and no one wants to give up any information and you just pointed him to google and youtube without giving any of the information he was asking about. ;)

I know you aren't being a tool and really meant what you said, but I was geeked up hoping to gleam a bit of insight as well from you and not some random search info.

Sorry, but I've googled my butt off and the info is still hard to find and no one wants to talk about it... this thread included. :)

I would say there really is no set standard is why you don't find what you are looking for. My view is that if a person wants a name/design on a item I want to put it as large as possible. Why bother putting a name or logo on a shirt so small you can't read it.

Each font has different characteristics. I've found that the prescribed density and underlay for a certain font doesn't work well so I have to adjust the settings after a sewout. I then make notes of what works and what doesn't. Also I've noticed a slight difference between machine manufacturers on fonts as well. Hell, even certain fonts I won't use because I don't like the way they sew out. I really like free step in my Compucon software because of the dimension it shows and the durability of it.

You really have to spend some time just experimenting with all the parameters on scrap material to get an idea of what your machine will produce. I don't think you'll find that on many tutorials. Tutorials only give the basics.

minimalist wrote:
I would say there really is no set standard is why you don't find what you are looking for. My view is that if a person wants a name/design on a item I want to put it as large as possible. Why bother putting a name or logo on a shirt so small you can't read it.

Each font has different characteristics. I've found that the prescribed density and underlay for a certain font doesn't work well so I have to adjust the settings after a sewout. I then make notes of what works and what doesn't. Also I've noticed a slight difference between machine manufacturers on fonts as well. Hell, even certain fonts I won't use because I don't like the way they sew out. I really like free step in my Compucon software because of the dimension it shows and the durability of it.

You really have to spend some time just experimenting with all the parameters on scrap material to get an idea of what your machine will produce. I don't think you'll find that on many tutorials. Tutorials only give the basics.

Maybe that is the problem... it just seems hard to find even the most basic "guidelines" on this stuff.

I start salivating when I'm in a shop that I know produces top quality stuff, I'm waiting for my chance to ask a million questions on how they do X, Y or Z. :)

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

minimalist's picture

Gilligan wrote:
Maybe that is the problem... it just seems hard to find even the most basic "guidelines" on this stuff.

I start salivating when I'm in a shop that I know produces top quality stuff, I'm waiting for my chance to ask a million questions on how they do X, Y or Z. :)

Ask away.

Robert Young's picture

Robert Young wrote:
Just happened again with a different client... they send in THEIR OWN LOGO..... I send it back asking for permission to correct the spelling... (I know, being snarky) They actually kick it back saying: "what misspelling?"

you have "Promotional" as Promototional.

On your own logo! ?????

OK, so this particular client responds that they have removed the S from the end of their logo.... so Promototional is correct.

Seriously.. that is what they sent back.

Modern Embroidery Designer
volant-tech.com
volantfineart.com

Robert Young's picture

Just happened again with a different client... they send in THEIR OWN LOGO..... I send it back asking for permission to correct the spelling... (I know, being snarky) They actually kick it back saying: "what misspelling?"

you have "Promotional" as Promototional.

On your own logo! ?????

Modern Embroidery Designer
volant-tech.com
volantfineart.com

That reminds me when I first moved here to Seattle and was working for a local emb. production company. There was a design with the word Washington and it went through three people and through production before someone realized the g was missing. Their artist, our artist and my boss who digitized it. It took him a while to live that one down.

That's just a reflection of today's educational system - spelling and grammar are not important; the important thing is that the message gets across.

Unfortunately, all too often the message that gets across is that the author is illiterate...

Alan Hepburn
Proud to be a Blue Star Family

Prosperi-Tees's picture

Are there guidelines for embroidery? I would like yo add it to our offering but want to learn the lingo and requirements and what not. It seems its harder to get embroidery information as opposed to screen printing.. Kinda like a secret society... Lol

Alan_Hepburn wrote:
That's just a reflection of today's educational system - spelling and grammar are not important; the important thing is that the message gets across.

Unfortunately, all too often the message that gets across is that the author is illiterate...

Sort of like "We learned this in Collage"

Robert Young's picture

Prosperi-Tees wrote:
Are there guidelines for embroidery? I would like yo add it to our offering but want to learn the lingo and requirements and what not. It seems its harder to get embroidery information as opposed to screen printing.. Kinda like a secret society... Lol

I agree that a few years ago this could have been very true... but today with YouTube and Search Engines and Wiki options I would think anyone serious could learn quite a lot in a short period of time. The classes at any ISS show would also benefit anyone in the industry.

Modern Embroidery Designer
volant-tech.com
volantfineart.com

minimalist's picture

Robert Young wrote:
Today a client sent in their own design to be digitized... they offer screen printing and embroidery services. As is often the case when they created their corporate logo they did not factor embroidery requirements... so while the design is great for screen printing it would not embroider without being over 9 inches wide... kinda large for a left chest, even here in Texas.

Trying to explain this should not be like pulling teeth, but it often is... they sell it but really have no concept of what is needed for quality... letter sizes, line thicknesses, and don't even bring up thinner 60wt thread as they are already overwhelmed by their COGS and their head may explode!!

To make it all even better they misspelled EMBROIDERED and their logo has EMBROIDERD....... I visited their website and it has been that way for quite a while for them... in the WHO ARE WE tab... That page has 8 misspellings with 2 being right in the first line!! Funny since the page is devoted to explaining how the owner started this company right after graduating college...... ???

Unline Univecity klasses offur the besst edukashion.

Reminds me of a story. A young man in the early 1900's parents were having a hard time making it. They told their 9-10 year old son (don't remember the exact age) that he would have to go out and support himself as they no longer could afford it. He went to work as an accountant for a company and by the age of 22 he had the title as President of that same company. He then commissioned a novice architect who really needed work to build a place for his entire family. Later he funded many more projects that got the architect's name out there. The architect's name was Frank Lloyd Wright.

All this by a kid who never finished school and never went to college. Now we have "educated" people that have no understand of spelling and grammar as well as how things work.

minimalist's picture

Prosperi-Tees wrote:
Are there guidelines for embroidery? I would like yo add it to our offering but want to learn the lingo and requirements and what not. It seems its harder to get embroidery information as opposed to screen printing.. Kinda like a secret society... Lol

I had roughly 8 hours of training on the machine and software. While I still don't digitize yet, everything else I learned by myself (with the occasional call to tech support). The only real problem I have is seeing that tiny needle opening with reading glasses.

This is the best post I have seen in a while! This is how I have been feeling lately! I am tired of seeing designs that the height is double the width and they want it to go on a hat with maximum height of 2". When people are "creating a logo for embroidery" please consider if you plan on putting it on hats! People say they created it just for embroidery yet the logo is so tall compared to the width that when you bring it down to 2" height all the detail is lost and they don't understand why. There are rules to embroidery but sometimes plain common sense can work too.

minimalist's picture

BJ24 wrote:
This is the best post I have seen in a while! This is how I have been feeling lately! I am tired of seeing designs that the height is double the width and they want it to go on a hat with maximum height of 2". When people are "creating a logo for embroidery" please consider if you plan on putting it on hats! People say they created it just for embroidery yet the logo is so tall compared to the width that when you bring it down to 2" height all the detail is lost and they don't understand why. There are rules to embroidery but sometimes plain common sense can work too.

You're putting the design on the wrong hat. Haven't you heard of the 6 panel flexfit top hat? 12" in height with a flat bill fitting all sizes.

Umm....minimalist. Did you read what I wrote:confused:
I am the digitizer. I get the order from the customer. So, if they want the design to be 2" height due to their cap frame, that is what I give them. Again, I am the digitizer so I am not on the production end. I don't see the hat, I don't pick out the hat, I don't run the hats.....I digitize what the customer wants.
So, if the customer can only run 2" height due to the cap frame constraints, there is nothing on my end I can do about it:D

My point was that the customer has constraints of 2" height yet the logo which were "made for embroidery" are way to tall compared to the width. Get it???

minimalist wrote:
You're putting the design on the wrong hat. Haven't you heard of the 6 panel flexfit top hat? 12" in height with a flat bill fitting all sizes.

Your answer makes no sense. I am not the one putting the design on the hat or picking out the hat. I digitize the design according to their cap frame constraints and what they ask for. I don't tell them what cap to order. That is between them and their customer.