Darkroom.........................

Screen Printer's picture

Do you guys have a darkroom?

If so....what size is it?

or

Do you use a covered screen cart?

Location: 
United States

We have a 15x15 office converted into a dark room. We have sheets of rubylith covering the light as well as HVAC and dehumidifers.

Down the coastlines with the winds we reign. Men of the north we leave the shores in flames.

Binkspot's picture

Mines 7x8, way to small, i have a heater and dehumidifyer and keep it around 80 degrees in there. I also have a home made dry box that has blower and heater, holds 12 screen, keep that at 100 degrees. This is used to dry the screens quickly.

I will be moving to a new location soon and decided to give it a try without the dark room. I will be building a few more of my dry boxes to store the screens. If it becomes a challenge I'll just build another darkroom.

Owner/Operator of Middletownink

Ted ... I would suggest that you do something where you end up with chambers ... the room that the screens are coated should be far removed from any of the water processes (spray out / wash out / reclaim / etc.)

The emulsions are light sensitive therefore ALL coating, drying, shelving, and exposing should be done in rooms that are yellow light ... drying cabinets are good if maintained properly (clean them often including the fans -and- heating elements) ... think of this as a laboratory environment ... ALL dust particles should be cleaned from the walls, ceiling, floors, doors, etc. ... moisture is your enemy as it inhibits the cross linking of the emulsion ... as discussed keep the emulsion itself contaminate free as well ... don't use your finger to paddle the emulsion back into the bucket <--- the salts, oils, etc. = contamination

Fans in a screen room are your enemy ... they are dust Slingers -and- the static they produce make it even worse ... remember it is called SCREEN printing because it starts with the SCREEN ... Look you have one of the nicest textile screen printing machines in the world and your Mustang deserves to be fed a healthy diet of fantastic SCREENs :-o

Note: a good clean water dip tank with agitator for post exposure would go a long way as well ... once water is reintroduced to the screen it will quickly block the post exposure issues -and- soften the emulsion for a later rinse out <--- but keep this far away from your screen storage as to not reintroduce moisture in your process

Warning YOU are in Louisiana where the humidity levels are ridiculous ... so ... You need to pay particular attention as to exterior walls, windows, doors, etc. otherwise you are fighting an up hill battle for no reason !!!

BTW ... a common misnomer is that people are always adding more heat and raising the temperature of the coated screen ... where they really should be more focussed on getting the moisture levels down

Hope this helps :-p

srimonogramming's picture

Just to clarify on something Robert posted, you don't have to coat your screens under a safe light, but everything else is correct. You can coat all your screens wherever you want but they need to be in a safe light environment fairly quickly after you coat them.

srimonogramming wrote:
Just to clarify on something Robert posted, you don't have to coat your screens under a safe light, but everything else is correct. You can coat all your screens wherever you want but they need to be in a safe light environment fairly quickly after you coat them.

Alan ... Your statement will confuse people ... as an example if they are coating their screens in ambient light then putting them into a screen drying cabinet that is also in ambient light -then- when the later remove the screen to expose it -then- it is in ambient light which will effect the exposure of that screen

Sure there are people out there that will say " I do it like this -or- do it like that" -but- those kind of people probably don't fully understand the exposure process ... I come from the days of a stat camera -and- working in a red light darkroom where exposure to light was exposure to light (period)

Just because the yellow light room emulsions we use have a slower reaction then the red light room emulsions of photographic film still doesn't mean that the exposure is magically not an exposure if you move quickly ... Laughable

srimonogramming's picture

If my post confused them then they don't have much hope in this industry, or life in general. I told them to put the screen in safe light quickly after coating, so what's the problem with my statement?

srimonogramming wrote:
If my post confused them then they don't have much hope in this industry, or life in general. I told them to put the screen in safe light quickly after coating, so what's the problem with my statement?

I think people will be confused ... imagine that confused people in screen printing :-o

I have been in shops where they coat the screen in ambient light -then- slide them into a drying cabinet (that is sitting in ambient light) ... so ... when they open the drying cabinet to insert the last screen on the bottom shelf the top screens have already dried -and- they are now being exposed to ambient light ... so ... lets assume that they coat all of them super-duper fast :-p

No matter what happens next ... they still will need to remove those dried screens at some point from the cabinet -and- if they are removed into ambient light then that is the problem ... once again there will be the folks that say " I do it all the time " -but- those folks don't fully understand exposure ... hence I stand on my statement that "Your statement will confuse people" <--- whether they "have much hope in the industry, or life in general." (also your words)

At the end of the day ... the number one sin in our industry is the lack of screen making knowledge throughout the world ... don't get me started ;-) LOL

stefanick's picture

srimonogramming wrote:
If my post confused them then they don't have much hope in this industry, or life in general. I told them to put the screen in safe light quickly after coating, so what's the problem with my statement?

easy fellas, its only screen printing..i do the same .coat in the light and then put them in the dry cabinet, then take them out in the light, expose them and walk them to the washout booth in the light and have zero problems. I think robert meant FUNDAMENTALLY this is the correct way to do it,

Then if people do it all the time day in day out, Brandt for example. They do it successfully yet according to you they do not know what they are doing.

We are not morons but unlike you we do this for a living we understand today's materials better than the machine guy that visits many completely different shops and has a totally different point of view than the day to day screen printer.

Laughable (your choice of word) is a self proclaimed guru that tells people either what they are doing is wrong or they do not understand what they are doing, YET THEY STILL DO IT SUCCESFULLY!

GraphicDisorder's picture

inkman996 wrote:
Then if people do it all the time day in day out, Brandt for example. They do it successfully yet according to you they do not know what they are doing.

We are not morons but unlike you we do this for a living we understand today's materials better than the machine guy that visits many completely different shops and has a totally different point of view than the day to day screen printer.

Laughable (your choice of word) is a self proclaimed guru that tells people either what they are doing is wrong or they do not understand what they are doing, YET THEY STILL DO IT SUCCESFULLY!

Ya we have no problems with screen coating, screen burning, or exposure times. Ill let our work speak for its self...

Brandt
Graphic Disorder
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Binkspot's picture

Just for the record I coat all my screens in the shop with the lights on, not in the darkroom. I also bring all the screens out for a job when I'm regestering them on my bible board. By the time I set them up and burn them some have been out of the dark for 10-15 min. Like mentioned above a few min out of the dark room is nothing compared to a few min of high intensity uv from the exposure unit.

As for cleanliness, sure you want things to be neat and clean but we are not building microchips or satellites.

It's not like it's magic emulsion that cures instantly when exposed to light. Besides there are no uv proof lights, even the best emit some uv energy

As for the heat I use it to accelerate the drying of reclaimed screens, fresh emulsion and ones we just exposed. It also helps keep the room dry and the humidifier won't need to work as hard. FYI I do have a filter to keep dust out of the dry box.

Owner/Operator of Middletownink

Binkspot wrote:
Just for the record I coat all my screens in the shop with the lights on, not in the darkroom. I also bring all the screens out for a job when I'm regestering them on my bible board. By the time I set them up and burn them some have been out of the dark for 10-15 min. Like mentioned above a few min out of the dark room is nothing compared to a few min of high intensity uv from the exposure unit.

As for cleanliness, sure you want things to be neat and clean but we are not building microchips or satellites.

It's not like it's magic emulsion that cures instantly when exposed to light. Besides there are no uv proof lights, even the best emit some uv energy

As for the heat I use it to accelerate the drying of reclaimed screens, fresh emulsion and ones we just exposed. It also helps keep the room dry and the humidifier won't need to work as hard. FYI I do have a filter to keep dust out of the dry box.

Good points made ... Preston posted this in response to the heat -vs- Moisture issue ...

Heat -vs- Moisture ...

interesting science ... but what do we know we are just a bunch of guys behind keyboards ;-) LOL

BTW Alan's post made perfect and underst and able sense. What Any intelligent person will get from his statement is that today's emulsions are forgiving when wet they are at their least sensitivity but once dried they are at the peak of sensitivity, BUT even when dry they are still forgiving long to work with if you choose to work in typical shop lights.

Prosperi-Tees's picture

I figure if it takes 6 minutes for a screen to get exposed being blasted with UV blacklight the 20 seconds I have it exposed to weak ambient light would not present a problem.

Prosperi-Tees wrote:
I figure if it takes 6 minutes for a screen to get exposed being blasted with UV blacklight the 20 seconds I have it exposed to weak ambient light would not present a problem.

Agreed ... however ... a lot of shops use a pure photopolymer ... as an example:

if you were using a high mesh count -and- your proper exposure were say 30 light units -and- the moving of the screen thru ambient light were say 1 -or- 2 units -then- you are pre-exposing the screen to 1/30 -to- 1/15 of the exposure ... also ... if there is a period of delay between the ambient light shock -and- the actual exposure this can cause the chemical cross linking to begin -and- somewhat accelerate during the wait :-@

Hey ... what do I know I am just some machine guy ;-) LOL

Barnes, when was the last time you made a set of screens and printed? You realize we are talking about t-shirts here right? We are not going for 85 line halftone fine art prints.

Down the coastlines with the winds we reign. Men of the north we leave the shores in flames.

I'd also argue that your "1 to 2 light units" are highly exaggerated in typical shop lights.

People have left a quarter on their screen sitting under clear uv tube protected bulbs for hours and it washed out. Under yellow tubes it went days. under standard unsleeved tubes I'm sure are a FRACTION of a light unit when exposed for the time.

You can talk about the good ol days but hey, "the good ol days weren't all that much better" - Extreme... besides... back in the day you had to crank start your car... do you still think we should stay in the habit of cranking our car because that is the way it was done back then?

Times change... keep up.

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

I'd agree with that... but if you get someone that doesn't know what they are doing that will be more confusing.

They will be trying so hard to not expose their screen to ANY light that they will make things way more difficult on themselves than they should.

I'm probably guilty of that. I probably take WAY too many steps to protect my screens from any smidgen of light. That equals wasted time, which equals wasted money.

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

Barnes getting technical with printing and pre press is always lol worthy.

Down the coastlines with the winds we reign. Men of the north we leave the shores in flames.

Why do it half azz ... I can't wait to show of the FPU (film positioning unit) for the Mustang -and- when you girls see the screen jig mount on the press you'll scream with excitment like school girls in a high school lunch room :-)

RobertWBarnes wrote:
Why do it half azz ... I can't wait to show of the FPU (film positioning unit) for the Mustang -and- when you girls see the screen jig mount on the press you'll scream with excitment like school girls in a high school lunch room :-)

probably not.

Down the coastlines with the winds we reign. Men of the north we leave the shores in flames.

One of the things I thought about while driving ... if you have older technology and believe in older technology -then- why try to improve ... just stick with the older technology that you are comfortable with -and- the old school thinking of that's the way we have always done it -and- it works for us ;-) LOL

Now we know why Bill Hood never gets along on these forums :-o

Binkspot's picture

Forgive me Father for I have sinned. It has been 1 year since my last confession. I have committed this sin against myself and the screen printing industry.

This morning I removed a screen from the darkroom and exposed it to ambient light for 1 minuet while registering it on my bible board before putting it in the exposure unit. I also let it sit in the exposure unit for ten minuets post exposure while I was talking on the phone with a customer. But thanks to powers that I do not fully understand the image washed out easily using only the garden hose nozzle.

Please accept my apologies in advance to anyone who I might have offended with this post, and understand my sarcasm.

Owner/Operator of Middletownink

Binkspot wrote:
Forgive me Father for I have sinned. It has been 1 year since my last confession. I have committed this sin against myself and the screen printing industry.

This morning I removed a screen from the darkroom and exposed it to ambient light for 1 minuet while registering it on my bible board before putting it in the exposure unit. I also let it sit in the exposure unit for ten minuets post exposure while I was talking on the phone with a customer. But thanks to powers that I do not fully understand the image washed out easily using only the garden hose nozzle.

Please accept my apologies in advance to anyone who I might have offended with this post, and understand my sarcasm.

305 mesh ... Pure Photo-Polymer ???

RobertWBarnes wrote:
305 mesh ... Pure Photo-Polymer ???

305 with pure I can walk through my whole building from dark room to wash out sink and still have a perfect stencil, how do I know? well we do it every time we run process.

And for that I will say ten hail mary's

inkman996 wrote:
305 with pure I can walk through my whole building from dark room to wash out sink and still have a perfect stencil, how do I know? well we do it every time we run process.

And for that I will say ten hail mary's

What would you guys have to do all day if it weren't for RWB ;-) LOL

Binkspot's picture

Actually KIWO Polly Plus S on a 305. Its the only screen I have left since I stopped reclaiming screens because I must be doing it wrong.

Owner/Operator of Middletownink

Binkspot wrote:
Actually KIWO Polly Plus S on a 305. Its the only screen I have left since I stopped reclaiming screens because I must be doing it wrong.

Do you dip -and- hose -or- just give'r the hose ???

Some folks like the idea of a warm bath with agitation -then- give'r the hose until you get'r all cleared out ... imaging can be a lot of fun in a darkroom -or- a well light area <--- it is ALL personal preference (I guess) :eek:

Note: the above post may not be suitable for your workplace -and- protection should be warn during ALL steps of the process ;-) LOL

BTW ... Did your Pizzatol delivery man ever stop by ???

GraphicDisorder's picture

Binkspot wrote:
Forgive me Father for I have sinned. It has been 1 year since my last confession. I have committed this sin against myself and the screen printing industry.

This morning I removed a screen from the darkroom and exposed it to ambient light for 1 minuet while registering it on my bible board before putting it in the exposure unit. I also let it sit in the exposure unit for ten minuets post exposure while I was talking on the phone with a customer. But thanks to powers that I do not fully understand the image washed out easily using only the garden hose nozzle.

Please accept my apologies in advance to anyone who I might have offended with this post, and understand my sarcasm.

Brian, he doesn't understand, he is NOT a screen printer. Not even close.

Brandt
Graphic Disorder
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Screen Printer's picture

GraphicDisorder wrote:
Brian, he doesn't understand, he is NOT a screen printer. Not even close.

One thing I will say about this.

My experience with Robert this past week.

Robert is a very technical person.

He reads and researches a lot and is a perfectionist when it comes down to technical ways of doing things.

He goes by the book.

But some rules can be broken with good results.

So....you both can be right.

-----------------------------------

Ok...there is

fast and faster

maybe you guys can be

right and righter.....LOL

RobertWBarnes wrote:
One of the things I thought about while driving ... if you have older technology and believe in older technology -then- why try to improve ... just stick with the older technology that you are comfortable with -and- the old school thinking of that's the way we have always done it -and- it works for us ;-) LOL

Now we know why Bill Hood never gets along on these forums :-o

One of the things I thought about while PRINTING...

Robert Barnes is probably DRIVING.

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

There is another aspect to look at.

Now I admit I am by far not a chemist or some kind of screen guru.

Anyways lets say you have a screen momentary exposed to your shop lights, lets say .01% thickness has been exposed and cross linked. OK now you have a minute layer of pre exposed emulsion, now lets say down the road you re-pulll that screen out for some reason for the same amount of time, does the screen re-expose another .01%, no absolutely not because the light first has to penetrate the fist .01% before it starts exposing the next layer. We all know post exposing is much much longer than exposing, it takes light a long time to penetrate already exposed emulsion. That is why we post expose using sun light it is the fastest way and practical, it is not practical to post expose using your light source because of time energy and bulb life.

Anyways what I am saying is hitting a screen with shop lights here and there does not really accumulate not in any reasonable amount of time anyways.

But what do I know.

GraphicDisorder's picture

Nothing wrong with being technical until you understand what is actually possible/practical which you will ONLY get from doing.

I know a lot of "book smart" people that push carts at walmart or run a teller window at a bank for 30k a year. Nothing wrong with that if that's what they want to do, but guys like many of us are far beyond that **** because we put the BOOK DOWN and DID WORK SON. LOL.

Brandt
Graphic Disorder
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srimonogramming's picture

A smart industry guy once told me that technical knowledge is great, but if you don't have the practical experience to go along with it, you'll do more harm than good. The first year med student thinks they know it all until they have a few people die under their care, then they start to understand how practical experience matters in any field.

Its like Professional Golf Trainers.

They have all the technical knowledge in the world but their bodies do not allow them to use the knowledge well enough to become pro golfers them selves.

I have a large warehouse room with yellow bulbs, and a bunch of fans. thats right, fans. NEVER have problems, and I have been doing it this way for almost 14 years. we are in georgia, it could be different in other areas of the country.