M&R is in the house!!

By pushing ink on Feb. 20, 2012

M&R tech showed up and hell in less than 45 mins had the heads on. The feeling you have when you buy M&R is a calm relaxing feeling that every thing is going to be alright!:):)

Submitted by Printwizard on Wed, 02/22/2012 - 12:30

GraphicDisorder wrote:
Jeff, do you notice the M&R has all heads working or some don't work like the Printex?

LOL

Sorry Printwiz, just having a little fun with ya.

I know a guy in Europe who bought a couple of PrismII direct from Printex, he loves them, no issues apparently, and fixed a couple small bugs as you would expect, but totally different to the US I hear. His comment was he would have preferred MnR but the price difference meant he went Printex and he noted the Prism was a lot louder Running than CIII. Some autos are louder running than others. We had a TAS 6 col and that was WAY louder than the Precision Oval 8 col. I think the Precision was the worst business mistake I ever made to buy it. Funnily enough was talked into it by the local MnR agents, and instead wished they had of just sold me an MnR. Hindsight can be cruel and vicious.

Submitted by 244 on Wed, 02/22/2012 - 12:53

Printwizard wrote:
I know a guy in Europe who bought a couple of PrismII direct from Printex, he loves them, no issues apparently, and fixed a couple small bugs as you would expect, but totally different to the US I hear. His comment was he would have preferred MnR but the price difference meant he went Printex and he noted the Prism was a lot louder Running than CIII. Some autos are louder running than others. We had a TAS 6 col and that was WAY louder than the Precision Oval 8 col. I think the Precision was the worst business mistake I ever made to buy it. Funnily enough was talked into it by the local MnR agents, and instead wished they had of just sold me an MnR. Hindsight can be cruel and vicious.
I love the way people consider pricing. They price a Challenger III compared to a printex when the printex doesn,t even come close to a Challenger II and then say its too expensive. Last time I checked the Challenger II was within 5% of the Printex price with about a 100% higher residual value and definitely more reliable. Go figure!
Submitted by pushing ink on Wed, 02/22/2012 - 13:07

244 wrote:
I love the way people consider pricing. They price a Challenger III compared to a printex when the printex doesn,t even come close to a Challenger II and then say its too expensive. Last time I checked the Challenger II was within 5% of the Printex price with about a 100% higher residual value and definitely more reliable. Go figure!

Let's also factor in that you will RECEIVE the Challenger ll!

GraphicDisorder's picture
Submitted by GraphicDisorder on Wed, 02/22/2012 - 13:11

pushing ink wrote:
Let's also factor in that you will RECEIVE the Challenger ll!

BOOM.

Let's also not forget this important FACT.

How much lost revenue have you lost from waiting this long for your Prism? It's taking its sweet time and you are loosing production capacity EVERY minute it's not on your floor.

When several other companies can put a press in your shop in a reasonable amount of time, you better consider what the "deal" actually costs you.

Brandt
Graphic Disorder
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Submitted by tonypep on Wed, 02/22/2012 - 13:39

pushing ink wrote:
Let's also factor in that you will RECEIVE the Challenger ll!

But then you would miss out on all the antics and shenanaggins. Oh well I guess that's the trade off for having a reliable sturdy, performance machine with straightforward install and tech service and readily available parts.
What was that thing about Better Price, Better Technology, Better Something?
I don't remember.

Evo's picture
Submitted by Evo on Wed, 02/22/2012 - 13:53

tonypep wrote:
Better Price, Better Technology, Better Something?
I don't remember.

I think it was "Better Price, Buncha Technology, Better Keep a Lawyer on Retainer"

Submitted by Printwizard on Wed, 02/22/2012 - 13:14

244 wrote:
I love the way people consider pricing. They price a Challenger III compared to a printex when the printex doesn,t even come close to a Challenger II and then say its too expensive. Last time I checked the Challenger II was within 5% of the Printex price with about a 100% higher residual value and definitely more reliable. Go figure!

I don't know what prices were quoted and what were paid. Like anything I imagine a distributor may choose to markup by five percent, or ninty five percent. I do think if the price was within a few percent they would have gone with MnR as it was said it was first choice, so I can only guess that the agent had a much bigger markup to make the differential big enough to go with the other brand. I didn't really ask much and wasn't privy to much in the decision making process, just another printer in Europe who I know through a couple of people and was a quick conversation, not in detail, not looking for dirt. I was just wondering how much quieter the MnR was as I think noise is also an attribute, quieter shop is a more pleasant working environment, easier to hear the radio. I guess also noise is friction and contact so more noise is more wear and tear or maintenance or shorter machine lifespan, but that is just speculative.

Wasnt trying to be pro or introduce anything, but discussing the noise because .jeff is in a unique position to compare both in the same acoustic environment, same weight and class sort of machines. Is there a noticible difference?

Submitted by 244 on Wed, 02/22/2012 - 13:37

Printwizard wrote:
I don't know what prices were quoted and what were paid. Like anything I imagine a distributor may choose to markup by five percent, or ninty five percent. I do think if the price was within a few percent they would have gone with MnR as it was said it was first choice, so I can only guess that the agent had a much bigger markup to make the differential big enough to go with the other brand. I didn't really ask much and wasn't privy to much in the decision making process, just another printer in Europe who I know through a couple of people and was a quick conversation, not in detail, not looking for dirt. I was just wondering how much quieter the MnR was as I think noise is also an attribute, quieter shop is a more pleasant working environment, easier to hear the radio. I guess also noise is friction and contact so more noise is more wear and tear or maintenance or shorter machine lifespan, but that is just speculative.

Wasnt trying to be pro or introduce anything, but discussing the noise because .jeff is in a unique position to compare both in the same acoustic environment, same weight and class sort of machines. Is there a noticible difference?

I understand your point. the distributors can only add things like freight, duties, taxes, difference in country warranties,etc. the list pricing should be the same. As far as sound Jeff could answer that better than me as the presses are in the same location. I think I already know the answer but we will see I guess.
Evo's picture
Submitted by Evo on Wed, 02/22/2012 - 13:50

Printwizard wrote:

Wasnt trying to be pro or introduce anything, but discussing the noise because .jeff is in a unique position to compare both in the same acoustic environment, same weight and class sort of machines. Is there a noticible difference?

I think Jeff is at the unenviable point of not caring so much about the noise of the presses. The important thing to a man in his predicament is having a press that keeps making ANY noise, day in day out. Presses are super quiet when they aren't running (or aren't there)

As far as pricing and value (actual or more importantly, perceived) it really pays to do your homework, and LISTEN to others in the industry. Here and elsewhere.

As in Rich's example, a 5% difference in pricing on two similarly spec'd machines can be obliterated once the machine is installed. In one direction and another.

A bad press can start costing you time, trouble, lost production, headaches, etc. That's time you are only concentrating on a machine and not concentrating on more important matters to your business. (like feeding the damn thing with new orders)

A machine that runs, and runs well, will increase production, make more money and allow you to concentrate on new business and improving your existing processes.

At the end of the day, it's also VERY important to be able to drive home and leave the daily BS back at the shop. That's value that can't be measured in money or spec sheets.

Submitted by arttex on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 06:51

GraphicDisorder wrote:
What's with the small bugs? We were told this company has been around for many years. A beta press has bugs, not one sold to a customer.... wouldn't you say?

Not true at all. In the first two or three months of use, many brand new presses will have issues (mostly minor) that needs to be addressed, no matter of the brand. M&R, MHM, Anatol, Printex, you name it. I know about many cases like these. Brand new high end presses in 100k range, from the top industry brands, just installed, but techs were called after few weeks to fix some issues and to do some tweaking.

Submitted by vicb on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 16:24

arttex wrote:
Not true at all. In the first two or three months of use, many brand new presses will have issues (mostly minor) that needs to be addressed, no matter of the brand. M&R, MHM, Anatol, Printex, you name it. I know about many cases like these. Brand new high end presses in 100k range, from the top industry brands, just installed, but techs were called after few weeks to fix some issues and to do some tweaking.

I have never had any problems or tweaks or needed a tech back out after any of my M&R equipment was installed. Can't speak for anyone else, just speaking from my experience and a few other local shops that run M&R.

Submitted by pushing ink on Wed, 02/22/2012 - 14:35

graphicdisorder wrote:
well said.

I imagine jeff carries some of this drama in his personal life with this deal. He has to be ****** at this point at not only his choice, but the way he was treated after the fact.

m&r = :)

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