Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs- Old Conventional Designs

GraphicDisorder's picture

ScreenShip wrote:
M&R claims they ship something like 3 to 6 presses a day ... then we all must wonder why would 244 give 2 shittss about Mustang <--- heck Ted has one -and- Mitch has one -and- now David has one -and- Michael & Brian have an install coming up -and- .... ahhhhhh ... its starting to make sense now ... once the word gets out about the press M&R cn't put the toothpaste back in the tube ... now we know why GraphicDisorder attacks every chance he gets !!!

Says a guy that spends 80% of his day here. Sales must be epically slow. See. You are the complete USA sales.... If your here your not selling. Rich has dozens of people selling presses. He can be here all day and it's not a reflection at all how M&R is doing.

That's just the facts jack...

Get a job you bum.

Brandt
Graphic Disorder
http://www.graphicdisorder.com

Add us on facebook:
Brandt: http://www.facebook.com/graphicdisorder
Graphic Disorder:
http://www.facebook.graphicdisorder.com

srimonogramming wrote:
Eetherman, wouldn't it be much faster to put the flash on the second print head and operate it like a normal flash and do two revolutions? The flashback I saw took forever and our press would run circles around that production even if we sent the job around for two revolutions and one screen.

Printwizard, we did a 7 color job the other day with an underbase, flash then 6 colors wet on wet after that. I know not every job will permit that many wow screens on top of one another but we try to do as much wow as we can get away with. We have two flash units and use them both often, but using a revolver type system is rarely done. We will do white, flash, white jobs in two revolutions when the run is small so we don't have to set up two screens quite often but I despise having to use a revolver type mode unless it's like an 8-9 color job on the 10 color auto. I've successfully printed a 9 color job on darks with a 10 color auto, one revolution. I keep a sample around and show it off whenever I can.

Honestly that would maybe save a few minutes per run but then we are relying on the operator to turn off and on print heads. Our flashback takes about 6 seconds per stroke of white with an image size around 11-14 inches. So to answer your question, yes much slower than say the 3 to 4 seconds we flash with the RPM. The biggest downfall would be the speed of the print on the Javelin, we can print 2 strokes of white in the amount of time it takes to print 1 on the Jav. As far as ink drying in the screens maybe twice in 5 years and only because the fans got a little clogged. Fresh bulbs and good reflectors and the Javelin can flash pretty fast.

GraphicDisorder wrote:
Says a guy that spends 80% of his day here. Sales must be epically slow. See. You are the complete USA sales.... If your here your not selling. Rich has dozens of people selling presses. He can be here all day and it's not a reflection at all how M&R is doing.

That's just the facts jack...

Get a job you bum.

Agreed ... Mustang isn't important ... but ... lets educated the internet as much as possible -and- lets see what people think of the videos / pics ... it must drive you nuts to see the Mustang Printers being installed !!!

Gilligan wrote:
No, I got it a LONG time ago... you have set your goals to beat what you CONSTANTLY refer to as the most technologically backwards company on there. Wow... SUPER high target to aim for.

And even when you beat them, you will only be SLIGHTLY faster in setups? Woo hoo! Celebrate man! You have made such a victory... beating the ones that you claim are the worse. That's the great thing about striving for mediocrity not really that hard to hit is it? Granted it did take you like 15 years.

In which time MHM has been cranking out technology beyond your wildest dreams.

You talk about wanting to advance screen printing technology but you seemed to have COMPLETELY taken your eye off the ball and got too busy paying WAY too much attention to the company you say is last in technology. You should have been looking at MHM and trying to keep up with someone that is WAY beyond your capabilities.

Truly sad to see you focused on what YOU claim is the one of the most technology backwards company... not sure I want someone that only strives to beat the bottom rung (according to you).

15 years ago these guys made this video, this was before you even started using Pepsi cans to shim up machines... these guys don't even NEED to shim their machines! :eek:

MHM Promotional Video from 1998 (Part 2) Not HD - YouTube

I think you missed the point: beating MnR but reliant on using as a cornerstone TriLoc which is developed and sold by MnR...

I like 2M machines but would prefer Robert to compare to all machines, not just have the blue hang-up....

GraphicDisorder's picture

ScreenShip wrote:
Agreed ... Mustang isn't important ... but ... lets educated the internet as much as possible -and- lets see what people think of the videos / pics ... it must drive you nuts to see the Mustang Printers being installed !!!

Why would it drive me nuts that someone got the machine they paid for? You clearly have a real reading comprehension problem going on.

You really screwed some folks in your previous deals, and that is the problem. You've yet to make those right. How do you sleep at night?

Brandt
Graphic Disorder
http://www.graphicdisorder.com

Add us on facebook:
Brandt: http://www.facebook.com/graphicdisorder
Graphic Disorder:
http://www.facebook.graphicdisorder.com

GraphicDisorder wrote:
Why would it drive me nuts that someone got the machine they paid for? You clearly have a real reading comprehension problem going on.

You really screwed some folks in your previous deals, and that is the problem. You've yet to make those right. How do you sleep at night?

Printficient wrote:
I know this guy. One thing to note. He ONLY uses 26x40 WOOD screens. If they rip or warp he just tosses them in a corner and buys more. He does high detail work.

I remember the wood frames,no tape, and you are right, they do very tightwork. He says the wood frameswork for him and give him no problems because of the way the screens are held in place. I couldn't believe the high detail with those frames, but, the proof is in the pudding and the pudding looked really good.

srimonogramming wrote:
Eetherman, wouldn't it be much faster to put the flash on the second print head and operate it like a normal flash and do two revolutions? The flashback I saw took forever and our press would run circles around that production even if we sent the job around for two revolutions and one screen.

Printwizard, we did a 7 color job the other day with an underbase, flash then 6 colors wet on wet after that. I know not every job will permit that many wow screens on top of one another but we try to do as much wow as we can get away with. We have two flash units and use them both often, but using a revolver type system is rarely done. We will do white, flash, white jobs in two revolutions when the run is small so we don't have to set up two screens quite often but I despise having to use a revolver type mode unless it's like an 8-9 color job on the 10 color auto. I've successfully printed a 9 color job on darks with a 10 color auto, one revolution. I keep a sample around and show it off whenever I can.

Sri, just read the second part of you post, I am a huge fan of WOW printing. We also ran an 8 and 7 color on dark's this month with only 1 flash. 200's and 305's only. Are you running anything higher than a 305? We were thinking about going higher but wasn't sure if it would work or not.

Printwizard wrote:
I think you missed the point: beating MnR but reliant on using as a cornerstone TriLoc which is developed and sold by MnR...

I like 2M machines but would prefer Robert to compare to all machines, not just have the blue hang-up....

Mike ... list the other brands you would like to discuss and lets do it in this thread :-)

ScreenShip wrote:
Agreed ... Mustang isn't important ... but ... lets educated the internet as much as possible -and- lets see what people think of the videos / pics ... it must drive you nuts to see the Mustang Printers being installed !!!

Educated the Internet? It's edumacated!

ScreenShip wrote:
As much as some M&R trolls are going to run my next statement up the internet flag pole ... the M&R Tri-Loc pallet is a more consistant system than the MHM zero'ing the heads ... the inherent problem with hoping for a zero head position is the human doing the FPU ... if they are slightly off on the screen that goes in head 5 -then- to get that job out the door head 5 must be micro'd <--- getting head 5 back to true zero is not so simple

Magnify this issue throughout the day/week/month and before long you have every printhead in different zero positions to each other

I guess you missed the part about motorized registration.

So, I could be wrong on this but I think all you have to do is hit ZERO and poof it's back to zero with more precision than your "double coil over spring, digital off contact" BS.

Maybe you should watch this video from 15 years ago and see if you can learn how they did it 15 years ago. Then maybe one can catch up to 15 years ago.

MHM Promotional Video from 1998 (Part 2) Not HD - YouTube

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

So here is a question Barnes.

This press:

SROQUE RoqPrint Compact - YouTube

It has WAY more cooler bells and whistles than anything you've got. Hell, it's got a vacuum on the damn thing!

They are breaking into the US market... so where are all the "haters" for their machine?

They will be outselling you in the first quarter that they are truly up and running! Actually I'd predict they will sell more in the first quarter than you do in the entire year.

Yet you won't see a bunch of "haters" on here bashing them.

In fact you saw quite the opposite. You saw a lot of buzz and excitement and curiosity on here about them.

There is one difference between the two companies (one that you TRIED to change the public's perception... hmm wonder why?) That difference is that YOU are not involved in this company.

You tried to make people believe you were a part of it so they would hate on it... knowing it would hurt their sales. LOL Now that is quite the reputation that you have.

Also it's sad that you can see that you hurt sales but yet some how have a hard time seeing it at the same time and keep doing what it is that makes everyone not like you (mostly over promise and under deliver).

So why is everyone excited and interested in SRoque but not anything with your name attached to it? Where are all teh SRoque haters... last I checked that press isn't the right color according to you!

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

srimonogramming's picture

I had 4 330/30's from murakami but they all busted within a year. I did use them occasionally with decent success. The 330 is virtually the same as a 305/34 in % open area and theoretical ink volume so I've got about 10 305's in production and that's our highest mesh count. Years ago we had some 355's and even a few 420's, but plastisol ink would not pass through them without serious pressure and multiple strokes so I got rid of them. Sure you can hold some pretty fine detail, but you lose that detail when you have to double and triple stroke.

srimonogramming's picture

Just imagine how much more they could do and how much ink they could save if they used properly tensioned screens. They could print twice as fast and have faster setups as well. Wood frames could very well be properly tensioned but it's not likely. I have argued that one's quality would improve if they went from low tension to high tension screens, but I've never said that fine work can't and hasn't been done with 15 newton screens. That's never been an argument, we used static alums for almost 3 years and did some nice work, but we got better in every aspect of screen printing when we moved to higher tensioned screens and there is nobody on earth or any number of examples of print shops that produce high quality prints that could ever change that fact.

It's probably a lot cheaper to outfit a bunch of wood screens with the MHM pins for the regi system isn't it? I know it's a bit easier and faster to drill holes in wood than aluminum or newman roller frames

244 wrote:
Another Barnes alias. Buyers beware!

.
Are we supposed to beware of Barnes or just an alias in general? How do we know if you are who you say you are? Oh wait, you don't say who you are, should we beware of you then? Someone should chime in and warn us about you warning us!

This has been a public service announcement from Leroy Jenkins

Not sure who Barnes is to you, but you sure seem to be concerned about him and his Mustang (just saying)

Leroy Jenkins
(not from video game fame)
Jenkins Print Works

Icon_714 wrote:
Nice! is that the 70cm or the 110cm?

I'm pretty sure it's the 110, it was set up so that they could use the jumbo AOP pallets from M&R, that's a serious serious machine. I went to see it a couple months back and anyone who has the gaul to knock the C3 is smokin straight up crack mixed with some good ole asphalt. Those machines are also bad mama jammas! You have one as well right?

Also, one of these threads, barney says that M&R uses weak screen clamps, there isn't anything weak about those clamps. From what I see on the stang, it just has 2 little feet on each side holding the screen in a thin frame holder. The C3 is a solid bar, with screen holders that looked to me to be close to half inch thick aluminum if I remember correctly, there wasn't anything weak about the screen holding system on the C3 at all. In fact it was impressive to say the least.

Jenkins wrote:
.
Are we supposed to beware of Barnes or just an alias in general? How do we know if you are who you say you are? Oh wait, you don't say who you are, should we beware of you then? Someone should chime in and warn us about you warning us!

This has been a public service announcement from Leroy Jenkins

Not sure who Barnes is to you, but you sure seem to be concerned about him and his Mustang (just saying)

To all onlookers: Jenkins total posts = 2, join date = today = robert barnes and his little games

we can rag on the guy's wood frames all we want, they are seeeeeriouslyl busy at that shop, and have a press that most of us drool over hahahahah. You are right Alan, he should be on the Newmans with that thing, but even with wood frames, they set up 10 color jobs ready to rock in under 20 mins from a blank set up to rockin. The only thing I'd be curious to see, knowing how wood will warp and lose tension fairly fast, using the auto reg function on that machine with screens that more than likely shift as they sit could be a waste of ability. Maybe they use different frames for re-run projects. I haven't talked to him in a while, I'll have to pop in for a visit when I go to SPA jacksonville next month and take some pics. Really nice family there and really nice work comes out of there.

I did the shuloc panels, they are nice, but after doing a little cost analysis, Bolt mesh is where we will go back to. I can have someone pre-cutting panels in down time. I got pretty efficient in installing hand cut panels in the frames. If we were doing daily re-screens, it might be worth it, but when you average 7-10 bucks a panel to cut your own mesh vs 18-28 bucks a panel, it's a little bit of a waste for me. Especially when one pops pre-maturally, talk about getting p i s s e d off!!!

screenprintguy wrote:
we can rag on the guy's wood frames all we want, they are seeeeeriouslyl busy at that shop, and have a press that most of us drool over hahahahah. You are right Alan, he should be on the Newmans with that thing, but even with wood frames, they set up 10 color jobs ready to rock in under 20 mins from a blank set up to rockin. The only thing I'd be curious to see, knowing how wood will warp and lose tension fairly fast, using the auto reg function on that machine with screens that more than likely shift as they sit could be a waste of ability. Maybe they use different frames for re-run projects. I haven't talked to him in a while, I'll have to pop in for a visit when I go to SPA jacksonville next month and take some pics. Really nice family there and really nice work comes out of there.

No auto reg on his 4000. I forgot about the no tape, and I mean no tape period.

Prosperi-Tees's picture

ScreenShip wrote:
Both the MHM and the Mustang will setup faster than the C3 that's for sure ... so you are right there ... but the MHM X, S, and E definitely have a disadvantage when it comes to zero'ing out the micros after tweaks ... so ... Mustang will outshine them both over the long run ... I know its painful for you guys to see RWB in front of such an awesome machine like the Mustang -but- the videos coming out real soon are going to make your head exolode LOL

Why? On the micro advantage/disadvantage?

really? I could have sworn he had that, well maybe that's why no worries with the wood frames and no tape. Either way, still a seriously awesome machine and great work coming off of it. They look like a space ship. He told me how accurate the e-stop was. that he almost goofed up moving around a security bar and someone indexed on him he bumped the bar and he said, total stop on the index, like 1 inch from a pallet touching him. nice to know something that big can stop on a dime like that.

ScreenShip wrote:
Mike ... list the other brands you would like to discuss and lets do it in this thread :-)

Robert, you missed my point by your reply.

Not just this thread, but every forum and thread and video moving forward. Compare to others like Anatol and TAS and Schenk and sRoque and MHM and Lawson and brown and any others sold in the US in the same class. That also means you can stop comparing to machines bigger or smaller that wouldn't be relevant to the buyers size and budget or operational requirements.

You know Robert, you act like getting the MHM micros back to ZERO is some incredibly hard feat.

But don't we all micro tune to "zero" every day with our screens? Of course this is also ONLY if you aren't balls on with your film application on the FPU. Which has been pointed out that DTS solves that issue. So even IF you have to adjust a head then all you really need to do is tune that one back into place (no unlocking of tuners on the MHM... does Mustang have that? Didn't think so)... this is something that most press ops are doing every day several times a day. So having to do it once in a blue moon isn't really that big of a deal. Think of the time saved not having to slide a jig in and out and spin that thing around to 16 plus stations. Whew... just not having to do all that crap one time around and you have enough time to zero out plenty of heads IF you actually ever need it.

Speaking of DTS, where is your DTS? Why are you still using films Mr. "I'm so technologically forward thinking" and "I'm pushing the screen industry forward"... hmm still using films? Well, hey, at least you aren't still cutting Rubylith by hand!

"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."

Barney,Barney,Barney; When will you learn, the M&R C III is a great Press and everybody in the Industry also says it is. Don't even try to put it or any other
of M&R presses down, When you have been trying to copy them for years with
little or no success! So do every one a favor and crawl back under that rock
you came from>

GraphicDisorder wrote:
Says a guy that spends 80% of his day here. Sales must be epically slow. See. You are the complete USA sales.... If your here your not selling. Rich has dozens of people selling presses. He can be here all day and it's not a reflection at all how M&R is doing.

That's just the facts jack...

Get a job you bum.

To be fair Roberts sales per capita probably aren't that bad. If you took the MnR count and divided that globally by every agent, sales rep of every distributor etc across maybe a hundred countries then it's probably not that flash at all extrapolated out. It's just result off mass of sales force, both direct and indirect representation.

Gilligan wrote:
So here is a question Barnes.

This press:

SROQUE RoqPrint Compact - YouTube

It has WAY more cooler bells and whistles than anything you've got. Hell, it's got a vacuum on the damn thing!

They are breaking into the US market... so where are all the "haters" for their machine?

They will be outselling you in the first quarter that they are truly up and running! Actually I'd predict they will sell more in the first quarter than you do in the entire year.

Yet you won't see a bunch of "haters" on here bashing them.

In fact you saw quite the opposite. You saw a lot of buzz and excitement and curiosity on here about them.

There is one difference between the two companies (one that you TRIED to change the public's perception... hmm wonder why?) That difference is that YOU are not involved in this company.

You tried to make people believe you were a part of it so they would hate on it... knowing it would hurt their sales. LOL Now that is quite the reputation that you have.

Also it's sad that you can see that you hurt sales but yet some how have a hard time seeing it at the same time and keep doing what it is that makes everyone not like you (mostly over promise and under deliver).

So why is everyone excited and interested in SRoque but not anything with your name attached to it? Where are all teh SRoque haters... last I checked that press isn't the right color according to you!

So Ryonet dropped MnR for a better machine also?

Ouch!!

Prosperi-Tees wrote:
Why? On the micro advantage/disadvantage?

ScreenShip wrote:
Shcmerry ... the MHM 4000 with auto-reg uses motor driven scren movement ... its badazz

See, he doesn't answer the question directly because he really doesn't know what he's talking about. He tried before to explain but it really didn't make much sense...*surprise*

Dime a dozen car saleman.

Pages