Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs- Old Conventional Designs

I run 6 col four stations. The math is a minute to load, a minute to unload and stack, then a minute per colour per set of four. I price at $1 a minute (plus $.20/A5; $.40/A4; $.80/A3 to cov inks and consumables) and that's how I normally work my quotes out and manage times. Obviously some jobs go faster, some not so fast....

Both the MHM and the Mustang will setup faster than the C3 that's for sure ... so you are right there ... but the MHM X, S, and E definitely have a disadvantage when it comes to zero'ing out the micros after tweaks ... so ... Mustang will outshine them both over the long run ... I know its painful for you guys to see RWB in front of such an awesome machine like the Mustang -but- the videos coming out real soon are going to make your head exolode LOL

I think you are right about reaping what you sow ... I am glad to have invested in Mariusz and Wes back in 2003 ... the Mustang will be reaping havoc for M&R out in the marketplace ... it will definitely be fun to watch them go crazy every time another shop choses Mustang over M&R :eek:

C'mon 244 ... RWB just locked in Round #1 on the skeleton investment pool for Mustang ... 3 more to go and Mustang is a 3 to 4 week install <--- how do you plan to compete with those type of delivery times BIG BOY !!!

Gilligan either you don't understand the process (definitely lack real world knowledge) or you simply don't want to admit RWB is right <--- its ok to be anti-Barnes

This is a pretty stand up video, it does show love for the printer, not just the sale =)

M&R Factory Tour Episode #22 - Screen Department - M&R Screen Printing Equipment - YouTube

When we had flashbacks we never used them in this regard because they are too slow to set them up to keep the ink from curing in the screen (pfpf on one head) and then go back to standalone, then back to pfpf on single head etc. Also painfully slow in pfpf mode. At least for us.

We always used as stand alone flashes and a double revolution for small jobs when necessary (hardly ever though). Looking back it would have been faster and easier to purchase full coverage quartz flashes, they would have paid for themselves in time savings within months, I think even on purely small jobs, but then again we rarely ever needed a double revolution or pfpf white base, maybe changing up your mesh counts would reduce this need?

LOL... Barnes... you see that user name 244.

That's how many presses you hope to sell in your life.

That's also how many presses M&R sells a year.

I'm just gonna take a guess and say "they ain't worried"... if you had ONE week of sales like M&R has EVERY week then you would be back to 12 month delivery times IF you were lucky!

Says the guy that doesn't realize the Tri-lock Pallet Jig has a stop block installed on the press.

Says the guy that showed how painfully slow he would set up a job on videos.

Says the guy... ok, I think we get it.

Hell, I think I even coat screens better than you and I recently started a thread on how amazingly bad I was a coating screens and someone had to make a video to help me understand the process!! :eek:

You really have no idea how many machines were sold at Progressive from 1999 to 2005 ... really would blow you away ... I need to find some old pics :cool:

FYI ... Progressive sold over 20 machine to Funtees (acquired by Delta Apparel)

Gilligan ... here is a test for your stop block theory ... if you are printing a job and pop a screen in the middle of the run ... burn a new one ... then slide it to the stop block and lock the plastic levers ... then raise up the tri-loc and reg the new screen <--- do you think it would work ???

FYI ... there is so much side to side movement on the M&R pallet system that you actually would need to leave the tri-loc pallet loose and raise it up into one of the screens in reg and reverse tri-loc the board -then- lock the yellow levers <--- yup the M&R system is that bad LOL

LOL... still living in the past I see.

I thought you were a guy that understood that this industry moves fast... if you aren't moving forward you are dead!

What I don't understand is why did you give it all up? I mean, if you were moving that many units then why walk away... for 5M? Wooo... Now you got 2M <-- Now that's a good pun!

Why did you leave out the Syncro? Because you know that it has been having technology that blows your stuff away since 1998?!

Why do you pick and choose what seems to fit what you want.

You also failed to talk about how those systems will setup WAY faster than yours. Yes, IF you put out the FPU you are talking about then it will be slightly faster than the tri-lock. But MHM will be even more faster than your system. So what is your point. Even once you beat the tri-lock you will still be a good bit slower on setups than MHM and those presses run about the same money. They are also proven technology and I'm not talking about the RPM, I'm talking about the bells and whistles you like to add, like you did the Printex machines that all ended up broken down while the tried and true Printex stuff in Europe is still kicking. So much so that they have one of the "Barnes Printex's" that they can't get rid of (even in the European market) packed up and ready to go. Probably because they know all the problems it will have and don't want to have to support the problems that you introduced trying to "improve it" to "beat M&R".

You are so obsessed with being better than M&R and you forgot that MHM was better than you 15 years ago and of course still is. You are still 15 years behind the curve man. Get with it!

vicb ... it will be awwwwwesome if you come (drag Gilligan behind the car LOL) <--- he will look better hahahahaha

There are (2) 12 color Mustang Printers on the floor in West Chicago in final assembly ... not sure whether the next one is heading to Columbia, MO -then- New Orleans, LA -or- vice-versa <--- will keep you posted ... (waiting on install answers)

Will post lots of pic for the ones that can't make it :p

What the hell does that have to do with the fact that you didn't know it existed when you were making your vids?

You also must not have known MHM had more advanced technology than you have today WAY back in 1998 because you kept talking like you had the greatest. Which you also said about Printex as well.

Do my pretty looks intimidate you that much?

I can't help it, I am beautiful.

Why are you so obsessed with M&R? If you say they are so bad and laden with "old technology" then why do you have your sights set on them? I mean, there are other companies out there with better technology. If you are going to sell yourself based on having "better" technology then actually do it. Make it better. Put your product against the TRULY better technology that is out there!

But since you are SOOO obsessed with M&R, explain why the 2m machine had never taken much of M&R's market share? Especially when it had a REAL man behind the wheel? If the "machine" is so much better then why is that?

You won't be beating them on price point, because your machine will be WAY more expensive than a standard M&R machine (which people will buy OVER AND OVER because of the service and support that they KNOW they will get with M&R)... that isn't even in the face of the fact that YOU will be the service and support for the Mustang... now they will RUN anywhere else! Your machine will be priced as high as an MHM... at that point why not just buy an MHM... even THEY have better service than YOU.

I don't understand why you keep talking like you will keep giving this "I'm Robert Barnes and I've screwed over so many people I have to sell this press at almost cost" discount. You know there will be a price increase... what was the time frame almost a year ago? 2 years right? Then we will see the REAL prices? Or like everything you deal with will the price increase be delivered late as well?

My Mother always told me since I was a child "everything happens for a reason"

I can assure you of one thing ... RWB is past the worst -and- enroute for his best run yet ... 244 knows it and that's why he filed that last lawsuit (epic fail)

Hang in there Gilligan ... we have a plan -and- it includes you posting RWB HATE (please don't stop ... we need you to second guess everything) LOL

You are HOT (just stop texting me the semi-naked pics) <--- my mini-SD card is FULL :eek:

And when 244 dies of old age and a new owner takes over they might be smart enough to copy this in another thirty years....

Speaking of advanced technology.

If this is what they were doing 15 years go... can you only imagine what they have in store for tomorrow?!

MHM Promotional Video from 1998 (Part 2) Not HD - YouTube

Gilligan ... I think you are starting to get it LOL

Gilligan....way off.

M&R delivers about 800 a year.

No, I got it a LONG time ago... you have set your goals to beat what you CONSTANTLY refer to as the most technologically backwards company on there. Wow... SUPER high target to aim for.

And even when you beat them, you will only be SLIGHTLY faster in setups? Woo hoo! Celebrate man! You have made such a victory... beating the ones that you claim are the worse. That's the great thing about striving for mediocrity not really that hard to hit is it? Granted it did take you like 15 years.

In which time MHM has been cranking out technology beyond your wildest dreams.

You talk about wanting to advance screen printing technology but you seemed to have COMPLETELY taken your eye off the ball and got too busy paying WAY too much attention to the company you say is last in technology. You should have been looking at MHM and trying to keep up with someone that is WAY beyond your capabilities.

Truly sad to see you focused on what YOU claim is the one of the most technology backwards company... not sure I want someone that only strives to beat the bottom rung (according to you).

15 years ago these guys made this video, this was before you even started using Pepsi cans to shim up machines... these guys don't even NEED to shim their machines! :eek:

MHM Promotional Video from 1998 (Part 2) Not HD - YouTube

I thought it was 4-5 a week. I could be remembering that wrong.

But that's almost exactly 4.5 a week to get to 244.

Well.... if the point is to post boring, repetitive bull****t... how 'bout this

Scary Dancing Clown - YouTube

That's what you tell people when bad $hit keeps happening to them. But it's really meaningless because physics and nature doesn't really work that way.

Hate to say it, but your grandmother sold you a line of BS.

I guess you are right ... RWB doesn't have any clue what he is talking about ... but I am certain one of these guys thinks he knows everything LOL

Hint: it is the one on the far right :p

You have the number right but frequency is off. ;)

Man that is one sexy beast!

Even standing next to Preson I look amazing!

here's an interesting video

http://youtu.be/MyPzDsg0QIg

M&R claims they ship something like 3 to 6 presses a day ... then we all must wonder why would 244 give 2 shittss about Mustang <--- heck Ted has one -and- Mitch has one -and- now David has one -and- Michael & Brian have an install coming up -and- .... ahhhhhh ... its starting to make sense now ... once the word gets out about the press M&R cn't put the toothpaste back in the tube ... now we know why GraphicDisorder attacks every chance he gets !!!

Oh, my bad... so in a day they sell more than you do in a year.

That's right I forgot how bad it was for you.

But hey, maybe one day you can catch up to Lawson!

Agreed ... we are ALL kidding ourselves ... you are right ... I will do a video Skype with Wes in Poland and let him know he is no longer appreciated by Gilligan ... oh wait ... he just killed himself after reading your post LOL

The funny thing is ... I got the whole Pepsi can thing from the MHM installers at a trade show when I was in my 20's LOL

Been to the MHM plant on tour twice -and- Herbert Mayrhofer (the founder of MHM) has been a dear friend of mine for many years -and- it saddens me to see him no longer able to push the technology of MHM forward :-(

I wish the Italian group the very best with their investment in MHM (Machines by Herbert Mayrhofer) -but- I've never met anyone that had the type of passion that Herbert has

I know this guy. One thing to note. He ONLY uses 26x40 WOOD screens. If they rip or warp he just tosses them in a corner and buys more. He does high detail work.

Man...You guys are all tall.......I am the shortest one and I am 5' 10"

I'm not knocking the this guy's press as it's his choice, and it does look like a nice machine. But, in all seriousness, how can it be the fastest set up???? Film positioning unit, same thing MHM users have. Then you still have a jig/master pallet, like a tri-loc. MHM, the screens go right into the press, no jig needed. Any MHM user I have spoke with all say that they literally lock and load. No clamps, no reg needed, they still have the fastest set up and break down, lifting heads for easy access, nobody else has that. Like I said, not knocking this new machine, it looks nice and carries the same solid building and performance as the RPM with a few new features, but as a press that still uses screen clamps, squeegee clamps, and flood clamps. It won't be faster than an MHM machine.

Don't forgot...Rich has more than one location

As much as some M&R trolls are going to run my next statement up the internet flag pole ... the M&R Tri-Loc pallet is a more consistant system than the MHM zero'ing the heads ... the inherent problem with hoping for a zero head position is the human doing the FPU ... if they are slightly off on the screen that goes in head 5 -then- to get that job out the door head 5 must be micro'd <--- getting head 5 back to true zero is not so simple

Magnify this issue throughout the day/week/month and before long you have every printhead in different zero positions to each other

the primary issue with the M&R pallet system isn't the pallet itself .... its the inconsistant clamp location and weak clamps M&R uses

All I can say to any onlookers who are looking at autos:

1. Check out a trade show
2. Look at the presses by the specs first, decide what is important to YOU.
3. Call real owners and get the word from real world users
4. This is IMPORTANT: Do not let Robert Barnes in your shop!

Here's the thing about 'ol Barney, if you let him in, he will slick talk you with his salesmanship. I think 'ol Barney is really less of a machine guy than he lets on, what he really? A SALESMAN, that's it.

I tip my hat to Barney's sales and promo tactics, but seriously folks, do your homework and don't let this vulture come near you because if you do, he'll be on you like shlt on stink.

BUYER BEWARE.

Well, I'm an M&R shop, I use a Tri-loc, it's in action several times a day. It will take you from over an hour of setting up to under 30 mins on an 8 color set up. I do experience the human error factor, or the mystical,(how the heck did that get so off) scenario, but, supposedly if you eventually go into DTS, you are at an almost perfect lock and load. Either way, you still have to contend with screens being clamped, and if you have a racked screen, you will have a slight micro. Honestly,we wouldn't be without our Tri-loc, we love it. But now, I have spoke with lots of guys who run MHM's and they all say the same thing. If you do what you are supposed to do at the FPU, you are dead on all the time. So now, this Mustang reg subject seems to be a combo of Tri-loc and FPU, probably going to work pretty good. I thinking having a jig that stays on the press, if it's not in the way or hindering the machines workability is pretty cool. I can't tell you when slammed busy, how many times someone has bumped into the T-L pallet and almost knocked it over, if that thing gets banged too many times, I'm sure it's integrity is compromised. I usually set it off to the side next to my dryer behind a table within reach of the load station, but still. If it was somehow on a print are and slidable, that might be cool. That's still not going to save that much time. It takes me all of 15 seconds to pull a pallet and slide the T-L pallet on and lock it. So, that's not killing my day, even if its a day with a dozen plus set ups. Carrier sheets now, that's one thing I really despise! Pulling the carrier and it's film off the table hanging or laying it down while getting your exposure unitready ect, things will move whether we want to admit it or not. Eliminating that whole deal would be cool. Double burning a screen with two images? Once and a while, but it's actually not worth trying to conserve the extra screen, but if you want to do it, the easy way is, line all your art up. Take the first image, put double sided tape on it. pop it in T-L, it sticks the the screen, pull the screen out of T-L, pop in your next carrier sheet and art, and lock the screen back down. You are now in perfect position for a double burn, preferably left chest prints only, unless you use 25x36 and have lots of open space. Still, I think, T-L, and DTS are the way to go, but not every small shop is ready for the 30 plus thousand to spend on DTS. Bottom line, if you know how to do good seps, you will fight less at the press, and just take your time aligning, never touch the T-L pallet to free wheel your machine once it's locked in. It's worth every penny.

So you admit that you stole that idea from a company you were trying to copy.

And being so forward thinking like you are... you were still doing the same thing 30 years later? They moved on to not even needing shims while you were still using Pepsi cans. LOL

Well, until you stole the idea of using better shims from Brian.

Ah, the cycle repeats.

15 years later you got a central off contact adjustment that isn't under the press like they did too.

Seems like you are always 15 years behind.

What will you steal next?