Standard vs Winged , Special Squeegies...

By Printwizard on Jan. 11, 2012
Forums: 
Screen Printing

Hi, looking at options with buying a new auto, and from Action Engineering I like the look of and theory of winged flood bars keeping the ink in the print channel and off the edges of the screen, more running and less maintaining levels, and ability to run with mixing less ink of Pantone shades etc.
They also don't seem that much more expensive. But on YouTube I don't notice any or many auto printers using these. Alan, didn't see them on your RPM yet you tweak, measure and optimize so many other things???

Likewise the only auto operator referencing any special squeegee is Alan with the Smiling Jack I think it was. There are now a few squeegee options out there now, and would be interesting to see anybodies preferences with say white, colour, tone and process, water base, plastisol, silicone, solvent inks and etc with what you find are the best combinations for clean prints, opacity, lifespan, ease of use etc. I think these are the small tweaks where one size definitely does not fit all. Sure it works, but are there better options for better results. Love to hear from action, ryonet, printers etc on this one.

Location: 
United States
srimonogramming's picture
Submitted by srimonogramming on Wed, 01/11/2012 - 09:31

I've got two winged floodbars and I like them, but find them unnecessary for most inks. They are really for your short bodied inks that love to go to the sides of the screens automatically like white and your really opaque spot colors. If you have the standard plastisol inks that have plenty of slump and aren't super short bodied then you don't really need them for everyday printing. If you do large runs all the time then they'll help to keep you from loading ink as often but with the right inks, we can go hundreds of shirts without adding or scooping ink back into the well with regular floodbars.

Binkspot's picture
Submitted by Binkspot on Wed, 01/11/2012 - 10:11

We have had much success with the M&R Ink Traps. With these you can adjust the flood and or the squeegee angle and still clear the screen. They attach to the squeegee instead of being a fixed part of the flood bar. I keep two sets, one for black and one for white. Always use them with those two colors no mater how long the run. Looking to get at least one more set to keep for other inks when we do long runs. The only down fall is they are a bit pricey.

Owner/Operator of Middletownink

Submitted by arttex on Wed, 01/11/2012 - 11:09

For plastisol inks - so,so... But if you are planning to work with water based inks, they (or something like M&R's "ink traps") are must. The main reason (despite obvious lower viscosity) is that water based inks are air dry and when they are left on the sides (outside of the print area) for some time, most of it can't (and shouldn't) be scooped back. Solid particles of dried (or semi dried) ink will clog the mesh and in that case cleaning the stencil with water is what is needed. This is especially true when printing with opaque water based inks. One of the main rules when printing with air dry inks is that you must keep all the ink in the printing area, having it involved in print-flood movements. Ink traps and winged floodbars helping a lot with that.

Like Binkspot said, with M&R's "ink traps" you can change the angle of the floodbar without fear of tearing the mesh apart. That's because they have spring inside and moving part which doesn't allow too much pressure on the mesh even if you raise your floodbar pressure. Another plus is that you just mount them on the sides of regular floodbar when it's needed. On the other hand they are a bit harder to clean than one piece winged floodbar and they are pricey for such a small piece of "equipment". But if you gen get your hand on one and take it to some metal shop as a sample, I'm sure they will make you dozen for the fraction of M&R's price. I did just that.

islandtees's picture
Submitted by islandtees on Wed, 01/11/2012 - 15:52

M&R now makes a winged flood bar. Im getting them with my new machine. I like there design better because they are not as hard to clean. Pricing about the same as other winged flood bars.

Submitted by 244 on Wed, 01/11/2012 - 16:26

islandtees wrote:
M&R now makes a winged flood bar. Im getting them with my new machine. I like there design better because they are not as hard to clean. Pricing about the same as other winged flood bars.
We have made them for about 15 years. Just a fyi.
islandtees's picture
Submitted by islandtees on Wed, 01/11/2012 - 17:05

244 wrote:
We have made them for about 15 years. Just a fyi.

I didnt know you made the same style as Action Engineering for that long. I thought it was just the spring loaded wings you put on the end of a regular flood bar. Learn something everyday.

Submitted by 244 on Wed, 01/11/2012 - 17:40

islandtees wrote:
I didnt know you made the same style as Action Engineering for that long. I thought it was just the spring loaded wings you put on the end of a regular flood bar. Learn something everyday.
They have been made with two different degrees of angles as well for the graphic presses as well. The degree of angle is not as important on textiles as the wings are.
Submitted by Printwizard on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 21:32

The M&R ink traps look really interesting but no clips on YouTube showing them working, fitting on and off and a clean. Info like fitting on and off, cleaning times etc, how they adjust with the squeegee or flood bar angles. I can see that a big wing on a flood bar given any angle will dig toward the mesh.

Submitted by RobertWBarnes on Thu, 01/19/2012 - 08:20

Printwizard wrote:
The M&R ink traps look really interesting but no clips on YouTube showing them working, fitting on and off and a clean. Info like fitting on and off, cleaning times etc, how they adjust with the squeegee or flood bar angles. I can see that a big wing on a flood bar given any angle will dig toward the mesh.

If you understand the proper use of the ink traps they really are the best solution aside from walling off the ink area ... I've been in a shop that literally tapes off a wall on both sides of the print stroke just outside of the squeegee / Floodbar width -and- they can then custom mix a PMS color based on the size of their production run they accurately calculate the amount of ink required to complete the job and literally end up with a tiny amount of "left over ink" at the end of their job that "left over ink" then goes into a small container in their test lab ... Really great idea :-))

As for the ink traps ... they will conveniently mount up to a certain width on many presses as most MFG's simply do not have a wide enough mounting bar to pinch them between ... example ... if the mounting bar is 16" wide and the squeegee is 16" wide it is not a problem -but- if the squeegee were 20" wide then that means the ink trap is dangling 2" out side the mount bar on each side ... much wider and you would need to add an external clamp to hold them on ... not a dig on Anatol -but- conventional mounting of the ink traps won't work on the Anatol style of clamping system because of the way Anatol's snap clip thingy holds the Floodbar :-(

Submitted by Action Engineer... on Sat, 01/14/2012 - 09:24

If I'm not mistaken, we were the very first to introduce the winged flood bars. We manufactured them for use on Precision Hydraulic Ovals starting in 1990. Since then, the design has been applied to all brands of automatic machinery.

We have had only very positive feedback over the last 20 years about these special flood bars. The time savings when these are used is immediately apparent and the cost justification is almost immediate. Most printers think it's a no-brainer. If you're not using them now - you really should be.

We offer the first one at 50% off.

Recently - we altered the design slightly to make them a bit more clean up friendly. Additionally, the wings are now 1/4" taller. We stock our winged flood bars in 6 different sizes and can make custom sizes if required.

We will have our Winged Flood bars on display for your evaluation in Long beach next week. I hope to see you all there.

Erik Naftal
Action Engineering, Inc.
Atlanta, GA. U.S.A.
800-228-4668, 770-934-1584
actionengineering.com
sales@actionengineering.com

Submitted by RobertWBarnes on Thu, 01/19/2012 - 07:54

Printwizard wrote:
Any user feedback on the double stroke squeegies, are they that good? Also, sharpening them?? What is your favourites for what ink or jobs??

I was watching the Printhead on the Mustang cycle during Ted's install and I thought to myself ... since the squeegee and Floodbar both have independent valves to move them up and down ... why couldn't we devise a way that you could flood using a squeegee in the Floodbar position -then- use the digital controlled squeegee pressure to energize both the squeegee cylinders -and- the Floodbar cylinders -and- end up with a double squeegee printing in one stroke ... hope I explained that well enough to understand :-?

The great thing about that is you would have independent control of both squeegees during the print -and- plenty of ink well on white ink (patent rights reserved by RWB)

Submitted by Admiral on Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:55

We have about 10 winged flood bars, a lot of QCM inks are thick bodied and work much better with them, not to mention 2 for white, 1 for black at all times.

We have a smiling jack and I have successfully used it for one hit whites and very fast printing of underbases but it's trickier to setup and sometimes doesn't work like I would hope, only have a few thousand prints on it.

Submitted by screenprintguy on Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:04

if you get into any waterbased printing, they really become an essential addition. I also use M&R inktraps, but for water based printing, the inktraps drag on the emulsion and break it down quicker, set your flood bar about a quarter's distance off of the emulsion with the M&R winged flood bars and they keep the water based ink in the print area, keeping it from moving all over the screen which will eventually work under the tape, then cause a mess, not to mention, they don't touch they screen, keeping your emulsion strong. I'd go with M&R's wings over action if I were you. Just my opinion, I have both

Submitted by jasonl on Mon, 01/30/2012 - 20:07

I have used both for over 10 years and they both have good and bad sides. The traps will break mesh is they are not kept clean. Mostly on white plastisol. The springs will get clogged and not function and will rip mesh if you dont keep them clean. They also break down emulsion on long runs. They are GREAT, when maintained correctly. My printers used to break screens everyday with them till I got ****** and threw them in the garbage! My bad, should've made them just clean them properly.

Winged flood bars are good, but the wing flares to far outside, I bent all of mine to keep the ink in the middle of the screen. Also, the wings should be taller, I complain every year at the show in ATL, but I am told I am the only one who has ever complained about it. Looks like they may be offering a fix to that now. With that said, they are better than nothing at all, and I use them on my whites and blacks, or colors with long runs.

2024 © DigitSmith | Terms and Conditions | Privacy Policy | Contact