You just can't knock the C3. In fact I saw where quite a few of the Giant shops that were running Formulas for years are now swapping out for C3's. Now, if they had any reserves, you would think they would look in a different direction, but they aren't they are moving to the C3. Serious machine. One Big shop by me, SS designs, they do Disney, "legit" not knock of Disney, and quite a few other huge brands are using C3's now and loving them.
Let me be clear though, I'm not knocking that Mustang at 360 graphics, it looks like a really nice piece of gear. Just saying, the C3 is the real deal!!! My friend Pat in Orlando love's their machine. In fact I remember someone bashing the crap out of him a year and a half back. Well I'm happy to report, that C3 has actually made them able to pick up a lot more clientele and opened a whole new market to the point that they are planning to relocate to a larger space and possibly add another one. Now, it seems to me they did just fine. Had they gone with a Playtex, they might be out of business trying to keep up with spraying static free crap in their control panel to keep it running =). Looks the the Challenger 3 may have been a big investment, that has paid off big time for a small shop that in 1 year of owning it, went from 3 people to 7 and needing more room for growth. Why promote another shop you ask? Well, they are our friends and have been a big help to us, and bottom line, you reap what you sow, I choose to sow good. Hey here is another cool vid =) Happy Saturday to ya, we are printing our butt's off today, looks like good reaping to me =) Try sowing good some time.
Whatever it is I smell B/S like everyone trying to make a buck. I give mad props to a company like M&R for staying afloat through the last 4 years. Even if half of their patents are bought and the other half are so vague, that I'm surprised they hold up in court.
Whats funny is them buying an Elexon patent for the digital stroke length that Rick Fuqua invented, then licensing it back to Rick which is then sold on the RPM as an amazing feature, and although mnr may own it they still put flags / prox sensors on their machines. I bet if you offered this as a feature on the sportsman to buyers they would jump at this option............
I think its absurd and obscene owning technology but not using it yourself, just depriving the rest of an industry of it. Imagine if Alcatel bought 3G/4G patents from Samsung and then barred the communications industry from using it.
It wouldnt happen.
Fastet setups for sure ... 1/4 mile race for pinks (not the Mustang -or- MHM market) sorry
I'm confused Barnie... The Mustang uses the tri-lock, does it not?
So how is it faster in setups than the machine that the tri-lock was built for?
Besides, you shouldn't toss yourself in with MHM for fastest setups... They are literally 15 years a head of the game from where you are TODAY... in 15 more years who knows how far behind you will be!
Whats funny is them buying an Elexon patent for the digital stroke length that Rick Fuqua invented, then licensing it back to Rick which is then sold on the RPM as an amazing feature, and although mnr may own it they still put flags / prox sensors on their machines. I bet if you offered this as a feature on the sportsman to buyers they would jump at this option............
I think its absurd and obscene owning technology but not using it yourself, just depriving the rest of an industry of it. Imagine if Alcatel bought 3G/4G patents from Samsung and then barred the communications industry from using it.
It wouldnt happen.
I believe M&R did try to use the technology but found it not cost effective for the market. Gauntlet X or something like that, correct me if I'm wrong.
Pretty sure they also tried to steal the flashback idea from TUF back in the day but were unsuccessful, once again I could be wrong. I'm a firm believer in once you try to steal a patented feature you should never be able to create another. If you gonna play the game than play it buy the rules. The patent game is holding this industry back that is for sure.
Submitted by Printwizard on Sun, 09/16/2012 - 02:00
Pretty sure they also tried to steal the flashback idea from TUF back in the day but were unsuccessful, once again I could be wrong. I'm a firm believer in once you try to steal a patented feature you should never be able to create another. If you gonna play the game than play it buy the rules. The patent game is holding this industry back that is for sure.
That was anatol
Submitted by ScreenShip on Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:55
I want to see a video of a PRO MHM guy doing the comparison (at least on the MHM machine). Not your ho hum drone blasé way that you did the CHIII review. I want to see someone with the same "passion" you have for the new way demonstrating how it compares on the MHM.
TRUE apples to apples.
Also let that PRO MHM guy say how many times he actually has to micro register the screen once on press. I mean, what is the point of any of this if it only happens 1% of the time.
You are constantly the guy saying that we need to push screen printing forwards, I'm just trying to do my part. MHM has done that... did it over 15 years ago and is continuing on and not looking back.
MHM is continuing on and not looking back ... I pizzed myself on that one LOL
MHM no longer has Herbert ... don't count on any innovative ideas coming out of MHM any time soon ... thanks for the entertainment though hahahahahaha
Gilligan we will see you at the New Orleans install where to you can give everyone your Mustang opinion ... we will discuss it then (will you need gas money like last time) LOL
Gilligan we will see you at the New Orleans install where to you can give everyone your Mustang opinion ... we will discuss it then (will you need gas money like last time) LOL
Wow... really?
Says the guy that I had to bring back to his hotel!
The only thing I let you pay for was dinner at the big wAWFUL House (big spender). You cried about that the whole time as well.
Ted bought us dinner the next night.
BUT since you are offering, I'll take a couple of bills to cover expenses and lost time at work if you REALLY want me there.
Unless you install during early December as I will already be down there for work.
Its revolver that gets me. People printed by hand in revolver mode before equipement was ever automated.
Did each person hit a software setting on their main control panel to get their body's to run in revolver mode? Was it called revolver mode? Was it patented? Is a manual press and a automated machine considered the same thing since one operates by hand and one is by motors/air/software?
My production speed jumped about 20% when I started using Newmans. Not to mention our reject rate went from 3-4% to less than 0.5%. Its a big investment, but roller frames are the best, by far.
Down the coastlines with the winds we reign. Men of the north we leave the shores in flames.
MHM is continuing on and not looking back ... I pizzed myself on that one LOL
MHM no longer has Herbert ... don't count on any innovative ideas coming out of MHM any time soon ... thanks for the entertainment though hahahahahaha
Gilligan we will see you at the New Orleans install where to you can give everyone your Mustang opinion ... we will discuss it then (will you need gas money like last time) LOL
When is the New Orleans install?
I might check it out. Gilligan can ride with me.
Its revolver that gets me. People printed by hand in revolver mode before equipement was ever automated.
MHM has the multi print program aka twister, essentially the same as revolver. And in that light has data saving capabilities, not sure why I've never heard of a patent case, maybe because they are not US based...or maybe there's another reason...do your own research...
Submitted by Printwizard on Sun, 09/16/2012 - 19:07
Actually I think MNR actually did build a flashback knockoff, not sure what became of it, but frankly the flashback is a bandaid approach anyway.
I personally feel the Flashback is a great option. We use ours for many jobs 12-48 pieces. Set up is fast and printing is much faster than printing manually and the shirts are completed in one rotation. We hardly ever print manually and we can pretty much accomplish everything with 1 white screen and 1 flash, it works great for us. If we had to burn an additional white screen, not only would we burn through 20-30 more screens a week we would also have to run a second flash it all adds up.
Submitted by Printwizard on Sun, 09/16/2012 - 22:04
I personally feel the Flashback is a great option. We use ours for many jobs 12-48 pieces. Set up is fast and printing is much faster than printing manually and the shirts are completed in one rotation. We hardly ever print manually and we can pretty much accomplish everything with 1 white screen and 1 flash, it works great for us. If we had to burn an additional white screen, not only would we burn through 20-30 more screens a week we would also have to run a second flash it all adds up.
I cant really see the point of step back to flash. I figure in terms of time it must be just as quick to go around twice? I really am curious as to the savings or machine wear or why. The only thing i can think is maybe a better load balance on your drier. but in that case you could also stop loading and go and stack the previous set while it goes round again.? Sorry again my ignorance in seeing what it achieves. All i can think is of use if you have a narrow, small, short, slow drier. And in which case you would then not cope as well with anything faster anyway?
Flashback not step back. Print and flash on same head. Flash is on a shuttle, the head prints then the flash slides over the pallet and flashes then repeat. We had one on our Olympian. Step back prints on one, flash on two then back to print on one. The Ptex is supposed to do it but no one has been able to show me how, not that we would use it. I aggree two screens or around twice would be quicker then step back.
Just saying
Owner/Operator of Middletownink
Submitted by Prosperi-Tees on Sun, 09/16/2012 - 23:14
I would have loved to have a revolver or a 2nd flash on the last job i did. I can see how some jobs benefit. I was hoping to get away with one flash but couldn't do it. It was a white underbase, flash, big splotch of light blue, flash and then silver shimmer. That sucked going around twice and turning on and off print heads and loading and unloading, way to much for me to keep up with without having done it before.
Submitted by Printwizard on Mon, 09/17/2012 - 00:57
The norm down under is to flash every colour..... Very little is wet on wet apart from the odd simulated process which isnt that big in the work we do. Grrrrr.
I just wish someone who reads all this stuff could actually afford one of the 4000's. They are really cool machines, but there are very few of us that will ever see one, much less get to take advantage of the badass features it has.
I just wish someone who reads all this stuff could actually afford one of the 4000's. They are really cool machines, but there are very few of us that will ever see one, much less get to take advantage of the badass features it has.
I hear ya. It would pay for itself pretty quick though.
I'd love to see the motorized micro registration in action. I understand the process I think, and if you did some complicated jobs over and over, you could keep those screens catalogued and ready to go and with a few touches of the buttons you're rolling on that 7 color monster that always takes 45 minutes to get right.
Eetherman, wouldn't it be much faster to put the flash on the second print head and operate it like a normal flash and do two revolutions? The flashback I saw took forever and our press would run circles around that production even if we sent the job around for two revolutions and one screen.
Printwizard, we did a 7 color job the other day with an underbase, flash then 6 colors wet on wet after that. I know not every job will permit that many wow screens on top of one another but we try to do as much wow as we can get away with. We have two flash units and use them both often, but using a revolver type system is rarely done. We will do white, flash, white jobs in two revolutions when the run is small so we don't have to set up two screens quite often but I despise having to use a revolver type mode unless it's like an 8-9 color job on the 10 color auto. I've successfully printed a 9 color job on darks with a 10 color auto, one revolution. I keep a sample around and show it off whenever I can.
I just wish someone who reads all this stuff could actually afford one of the 4000's. They are really cool machines, but there are very few of us that will ever see one, much less get to take advantage of the badass features it has.
There is a shop in Jacksonville Fl, with one, a 16 color, he can't say anything bad about it, they do a ton of short run jobs and re-runs. He told me, before he got it, they ran old Hacro machines, pretty big jump up in printing. Had a fire and re-built and he was able to get the Syncro 4,000 and 4 flash units. I want to say he has 175,000 in it. That's a bit of coin, but I guess if you have the dough to blow. He told me the auto reg is amazine and as accurate as they say, and he never, ever has to worry about leveing pallets, or any of those constant adjustments that other machines have to have. the control and production, from what he says, can't be matched. I'm just repeating, but I want to say they have had it for about 6 or 7 years now and the staff wouldn't look at anything else after running this one. Bad mamajamma for sure if you have the coin to blow. He also says he relies on independant tech service, but really has never needed it as it's been trouble free for him.
I know what "zero'ing" means. Even in my feeble, never having seen an MHM mind I can dream up a process to do this. Possibly mark a ZERO point on a Pallet... then you just dial in zero like if you were registering a job.
Everyone in this industry can register a job.
For that matter, technically next time you put a job on and say head 4 had to previously be adjusted... well then guess what head needs to be adjusted "back to zero" for the job to line up?
So you just go over to head 4 and line it up like you would if it was out of whack and Poof, you are back at ZERO and can go on printing all the rest of the days jobs.
Now, if you feel like that won't happen then this press operator you are talking about has more problems than you do and should probably do as you should and look for a new career.
Stop making mountains out of mole hills with the MHM zero'ing thing. It's simply not that complicated and just the time saved by not having to go around the entire press using a jig to snap frames in will be enough time to "zero" in that one job that some how the user screwed up on the FPU.
Which it could be argued that the same job would still take even longer on your press because the MHM's micros don't have to be locked down... so the time it takes to lock down your micros you could probably reregister back to "ZERO" on the next job and never miss a beat. Which means the time you waste going around with your pallet jig to set up all the jobs every day... well, it's just that... a waste!
MHM, lock and load!! You could have a monkey load and "register" a job on an MHM with about 2 mins of training. The same can't be said with your press Jig.
Actually Barnes is kinda right on this. If your MHM doesn't have the auto-zeroing electric driven micros, then you're stuck with pointers to re-zero your micros. Unless you have dial indicators or electronic read-out of position you'd be trying to re-zero the pointers by eye and would be lucky to get within .015" - .030" of actual centre, and what the point of having a FPU for jigging screens if you're messing with micro's before you start anyways, same goes for re-zeroing to marks or film on the platens, doing that is the exact thing we're trying to get rid of in the first place by jigging the film to the screen and screen to the machine.
A jig that goes in the place of, or better yet on the platen is a much better idea as then all screens are jigged to the same positional piece. Pins on the head only work if they never move or can be re-set in a fashion easier than what we already do to register screens with the micros.
It'll be at least 2 weeks before I can start making my own.
There is a shop in Jacksonville Fl, with one, a 16 color, he can't say anything bad about it... ...He also says he relies on independant tech service, but really has never needed it as it's been trouble free for him.
Man Barnes... THAT is the press you need to be selling!
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Submitted by Printwizard on Wed, 09/12/2012 - 12:14
If they only sold as many as Barnes sold then it would take 250 M&R sales agents to put out the numbers that M&R does.
As much as Barnes would like to try and say that is how it is all done I think it's another smoke and mirrors routine.
Yes Gilligan. I think there are easily this many reps. Remembering they have their own, and then some of the rep companies and ink suppliers who sell them can have from 3-4 up to a dozen reps each, start adding all the different countries mnr is sold to and times that out and its like 2 sales agents a country, and obviously maybe some may not be represented well or by maybe one service tech or something, but other larger countries would have big networks at several levels directly and indirectly.
That would mean selling a couple of presses each.
Sure in NZ there may only be one person taking the order, but the agent has like five people pushing the product, on the road as part of their agencies / mix. And we are as far away as you can get from either of their plant in a population of 4 million, so yes, am sure my math is ballpark close.
We do a fair amount of CMYK where we put down a Lycra base, two whites and then CMYK on 355-380 mesh counts with an 85 to 95 line dot. A lot of our corporates are so fussy that we just don't seem to get away WOW. Not many people do this, and generally might slip the odd one in, but still end up going two or three revolutions. I will eventually post Alan some samples of some of our jobs weve run. We mostly do "punch and crunch" type work, but I always offer the client better job quality for twice the price, and many will pay the money.
To a degree I would admit because we haven't really pushed wet on wet so much hence we haven't learned so much either so am a bit ignorant.......
InkWorks... if it is registered enough to do high end printing via the tuners then it's "zero'd" "enough". I mean, that is how everyone tunes the job anyway today.
You aren't supposed to be off anyhow. Besides if you are, just fix it and move on. It HAS to take less time than walking around the press over and over with a jig on EVERY job.
Maybe MHM is for people that are just too advanced for Barnes... it's for people that have DTS and don't have these issues.
If Barnes wants to live in the past still burning films then let him go "ahead".
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Submitted by Printwizard on Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:21
Mike, I thought you printed manually? You flash EVERY color? Holy crap that must be slow as hell!
Can only think of one job we ran wet on wet, was a sleeve print, we were running late and due to the art and design and not fussy customer it actually worked alright-ish. But yes, spin and flash.... Everyone down here does it.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Fastet setups for sure ... 1/4 mile race for pinks (not the Mustang -or- MHM market) sorry
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
You just can't knock the C3. In fact I saw where quite a few of the Giant shops that were running Formulas for years are now swapping out for C3's. Now, if they had any reserves, you would think they would look in a different direction, but they aren't they are moving to the C3. Serious machine. One Big shop by me, SS designs, they do Disney, "legit" not knock of Disney, and quite a few other huge brands are using C3's now and loving them.
Let me be clear though, I'm not knocking that Mustang at 360 graphics, it looks like a really nice piece of gear. Just saying, the C3 is the real deal!!! My friend Pat in Orlando love's their machine. In fact I remember someone bashing the crap out of him a year and a half back. Well I'm happy to report, that C3 has actually made them able to pick up a lot more clientele and opened a whole new market to the point that they are planning to relocate to a larger space and possibly add another one. Now, it seems to me they did just fine. Had they gone with a Playtex, they might be out of business trying to keep up with spraying static free crap in their control panel to keep it running =). Looks the the Challenger 3 may have been a big investment, that has paid off big time for a small shop that in 1 year of owning it, went from 3 people to 7 and needing more room for growth. Why promote another shop you ask? Well, they are our friends and have been a big help to us, and bottom line, you reap what you sow, I choose to sow good. Hey here is another cool vid =) Happy Saturday to ya, we are printing our butt's off today, looks like good reaping to me =) Try sowing good some time.
Real Thread - YouTube
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Whats funny is them buying an Elexon patent for the digital stroke length that Rick Fuqua invented, then licensing it back to Rick which is then sold on the RPM as an amazing feature, and although mnr may own it they still put flags / prox sensors on their machines. I bet if you offered this as a feature on the sportsman to buyers they would jump at this option............
I think its absurd and obscene owning technology but not using it yourself, just depriving the rest of an industry of it. Imagine if Alcatel bought 3G/4G patents from Samsung and then barred the communications industry from using it.
It wouldnt happen.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
I'm confused Barnie... The Mustang uses the tri-lock, does it not?
So how is it faster in setups than the machine that the tri-lock was built for?
Besides, you shouldn't toss yourself in with MHM for fastest setups... They are literally 15 years a head of the game from where you are TODAY... in 15 more years who knows how far behind you will be!
MHM Promotional Video from 1998 (Part 2) Not HD - YouTube
Place film (or DTS), burn screen, place screen, print! It CAN'T get any simpler or faster than that!
Even if you develop a knock off MHM FPU, you are still going to be using a tri-lock method of putting it on the press. MORE steps than MHM by FAR!
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
I believe M&R did try to use the technology but found it not cost effective for the market. Gauntlet X or something like that, correct me if I'm wrong.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Pretty sure they also tried to steal the flashback idea from TUF back in the day but were unsuccessful, once again I could be wrong. I'm a firm believer in once you try to steal a patented feature you should never be able to create another. If you gonna play the game than play it buy the rules. The patent game is holding this industry back that is for sure.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Its revolver that gets me. People printed by hand in revolver mode before equipement was ever automated.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
That was anatol
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
MHM is continuing on and not looking back ... I pizzed myself on that one LOL
MHM no longer has Herbert ... don't count on any innovative ideas coming out of MHM any time soon ... thanks for the entertainment though hahahahahaha
Gilligan we will see you at the New Orleans install where to you can give everyone your Mustang opinion ... we will discuss it then (will you need gas money like last time) LOL
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Says a guy that bills for travel.....
Brandt
Graphic Disorder
http://www.graphicdisorder.com
Add us on facebook:
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Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Lawson has the v squeegee, isn't that patented by Tuf?
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Wow... really?
Says the guy that I had to bring back to his hotel!
The only thing I let you pay for was dinner at the big wAWFUL House (big spender). You cried about that the whole time as well.
Ted bought us dinner the next night.
BUT since you are offering, I'll take a couple of bills to cover expenses and lost time at work if you REALLY want me there.
Unless you install during early December as I will already be down there for work.
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Did each person hit a software setting on their main control panel to get their body's to run in revolver mode? Was it called revolver mode? Was it patented? Is a manual press and a automated machine considered the same thing since one operates by hand and one is by motors/air/software?
Sorry just stating the obvious differences.
Brandt
Graphic Disorder
http://www.graphicdisorder.com
Add us on facebook:
Brandt: http://www.facebook.com/graphicdisorder
Graphic Disorder:
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Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
I'm pretty sure they copied one in the early 90's before Anitol was even around. I'm sure there is someone out there that can enlighten.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
There was, but because he can't control himself he got banned and his post were removed.
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Yep. Goes back to 1992 on the 2000 series.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Actually I think MNR actually did build a flashback knockoff, not sure what became of it, but frankly the flashback is a bandaid approach anyway.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
My production speed jumped about 20% when I started using Newmans. Not to mention our reject rate went from 3-4% to less than 0.5%. Its a big investment, but roller frames are the best, by far.
Down the coastlines with the winds we reign. Men of the north we leave the shores in flames.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Negative, MHM was using V-squeegees long before TUF was even conceived.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
When is the New Orleans install?
I might check it out. Gilligan can ride with me.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
MHM has the multi print program aka twister, essentially the same as revolver. And in that light has data saving capabilities, not sure why I've never heard of a patent case, maybe because they are not US based...or maybe there's another reason...do your own research...
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Like TAS has their own version too....
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
And Revolver is not a bandaid?!
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
That was a question not a statement. Not sure if that was understood.
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Yes, it is a big azz bandaid, IMO.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
I personally feel the Flashback is a great option. We use ours for many jobs 12-48 pieces. Set up is fast and printing is much faster than printing manually and the shirts are completed in one rotation. We hardly ever print manually and we can pretty much accomplish everything with 1 white screen and 1 flash, it works great for us. If we had to burn an additional white screen, not only would we burn through 20-30 more screens a week we would also have to run a second flash it all adds up.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
I cant really see the point of step back to flash. I figure in terms of time it must be just as quick to go around twice? I really am curious as to the savings or machine wear or why. The only thing i can think is maybe a better load balance on your drier. but in that case you could also stop loading and go and stack the previous set while it goes round again.? Sorry again my ignorance in seeing what it achieves. All i can think is of use if you have a narrow, small, short, slow drier. And in which case you would then not cope as well with anything faster anyway?
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Flashback not step back. Print and flash on same head. Flash is on a shuttle, the head prints then the flash slides over the pallet and flashes then repeat. We had one on our Olympian. Step back prints on one, flash on two then back to print on one. The Ptex is supposed to do it but no one has been able to show me how, not that we would use it. I aggree two screens or around twice would be quicker then step back.
Just saying
Owner/Operator of Middletownink
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
I would have loved to have a revolver or a 2nd flash on the last job i did. I can see how some jobs benefit. I was hoping to get away with one flash but couldn't do it. It was a white underbase, flash, big splotch of light blue, flash and then silver shimmer. That sucked going around twice and turning on and off print heads and loading and unloading, way to much for me to keep up with without having done it before.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
The norm down under is to flash every colour..... Very little is wet on wet apart from the odd simulated process which isnt that big in the work we do. Grrrrr.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Those MHM's are bad mofo's
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=386758264726127&set=vb.147388621292&type=2&theater
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Come on Vic... there is no time frame. You know that.
Barnes' favorite phrase is "I'll pencil it in" ;)
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
I just wish someone who reads all this stuff could actually afford one of the 4000's. They are really cool machines, but there are very few of us that will ever see one, much less get to take advantage of the badass features it has.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
I'll have to call them and see when the install is scheduled! LOL
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
I hear ya. It would pay for itself pretty quick though.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
I'd love to see the motorized micro registration in action. I understand the process I think, and if you did some complicated jobs over and over, you could keep those screens catalogued and ready to go and with a few touches of the buttons you're rolling on that 7 color monster that always takes 45 minutes to get right.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Eetherman, wouldn't it be much faster to put the flash on the second print head and operate it like a normal flash and do two revolutions? The flashback I saw took forever and our press would run circles around that production even if we sent the job around for two revolutions and one screen.
Printwizard, we did a 7 color job the other day with an underbase, flash then 6 colors wet on wet after that. I know not every job will permit that many wow screens on top of one another but we try to do as much wow as we can get away with. We have two flash units and use them both often, but using a revolver type system is rarely done. We will do white, flash, white jobs in two revolutions when the run is small so we don't have to set up two screens quite often but I despise having to use a revolver type mode unless it's like an 8-9 color job on the 10 color auto. I've successfully printed a 9 color job on darks with a 10 color auto, one revolution. I keep a sample around and show it off whenever I can.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
There is a shop in Jacksonville Fl, with one, a 16 color, he can't say anything bad about it, they do a ton of short run jobs and re-runs. He told me, before he got it, they ran old Hacro machines, pretty big jump up in printing. Had a fire and re-built and he was able to get the Syncro 4,000 and 4 flash units. I want to say he has 175,000 in it. That's a bit of coin, but I guess if you have the dough to blow. He told me the auto reg is amazine and as accurate as they say, and he never, ever has to worry about leveing pallets, or any of those constant adjustments that other machines have to have. the control and production, from what he says, can't be matched. I'm just repeating, but I want to say they have had it for about 6 or 7 years now and the staff wouldn't look at anything else after running this one. Bad mamajamma for sure if you have the coin to blow. He also says he relies on independant tech service, but really has never needed it as it's been trouble free for him.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Actually Barnes is kinda right on this. If your MHM doesn't have the auto-zeroing electric driven micros, then you're stuck with pointers to re-zero your micros. Unless you have dial indicators or electronic read-out of position you'd be trying to re-zero the pointers by eye and would be lucky to get within .015" - .030" of actual centre, and what the point of having a FPU for jigging screens if you're messing with micro's before you start anyways, same goes for re-zeroing to marks or film on the platens, doing that is the exact thing we're trying to get rid of in the first place by jigging the film to the screen and screen to the machine.
A jig that goes in the place of, or better yet on the platen is a much better idea as then all screens are jigged to the same positional piece. Pins on the head only work if they never move or can be re-set in a fashion easier than what we already do to register screens with the micros.
It'll be at least 2 weeks before I can start making my own.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Man Barnes... THAT is the press you need to be selling!
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Yes Gilligan. I think there are easily this many reps. Remembering they have their own, and then some of the rep companies and ink suppliers who sell them can have from 3-4 up to a dozen reps each, start adding all the different countries mnr is sold to and times that out and its like 2 sales agents a country, and obviously maybe some may not be represented well or by maybe one service tech or something, but other larger countries would have big networks at several levels directly and indirectly.
That would mean selling a couple of presses each.
Sure in NZ there may only be one person taking the order, but the agent has like five people pushing the product, on the road as part of their agencies / mix. And we are as far away as you can get from either of their plant in a population of 4 million, so yes, am sure my math is ballpark close.
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Mike, I thought you printed manually? You flash EVERY color? Holy crap that must be slow as hell!
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
here comes the show shop deals!!
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Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Not even Barnes could ruin the MHM name.... then again, that might be because they are smart enough not to get involved with him.
They are certainly smart enough to make a press that is way better than his... and they did that 15 years ago!
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
We do a fair amount of CMYK where we put down a Lycra base, two whites and then CMYK on 355-380 mesh counts with an 85 to 95 line dot. A lot of our corporates are so fussy that we just don't seem to get away WOW. Not many people do this, and generally might slip the odd one in, but still end up going two or three revolutions. I will eventually post Alan some samples of some of our jobs weve run. We mostly do "punch and crunch" type work, but I always offer the client better job quality for twice the price, and many will pay the money.
To a degree I would admit because we haven't really pushed wet on wet so much hence we haven't learned so much either so am a bit ignorant.......
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
InkWorks... if it is registered enough to do high end printing via the tuners then it's "zero'd" "enough". I mean, that is how everyone tunes the job anyway today.
You aren't supposed to be off anyhow. Besides if you are, just fix it and move on. It HAS to take less time than walking around the press over and over with a jig on EVERY job.
Maybe MHM is for people that are just too advanced for Barnes... it's for people that have DTS and don't have these issues.
If Barnes wants to live in the past still burning films then let him go "ahead".
"you don't need a hook for the worms to dance."
Re: Robert Barnes from Spider Machines - Modern Technology -vs-
Can only think of one job we ran wet on wet, was a sleeve print, we were running late and due to the art and design and not fussy customer it actually worked alright-ish. But yes, spin and flash.... Everyone down here does it.
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