Interesting instructions for your digitizer

Robert Young's picture

The art has a design with a solid white rectangle with a black border on it... but since it is an image of their actual signage I do not know if you want the solid rectangle, outline only, or no rectangle. Most clients do not do solid fills behind their designs as they add considerably to the stitchcounts and are not usually needed.

Client response to my inquiry: "hi, no triangle is needed, please proceed"

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young wrote:
Yesterday: client wants to know why a design done in 2005 does not work now. ?not sure what that means it isn't a can of beans that is 14 years old and gone bad or exploaded. Me: may we see an image of what you are getting? Maybe the fabric is different , or machine, or operator..... but in any case if you can send an image I am sure we can figure out a way to make it work for you. no charge.

Client: why can't you just make it work I mean we did pay for it.

Oh yes you did 14 years ago and oh let me see when was your last order....oh lookie it was in 2010. UH I offer to adjust for Free and you have not ordered from us in 9 years and you are going to give attitude?

whatever

That is the magic of people's idiocy. Also files can get corrupted over time, (a single failed or missing bit (a 1 or a 0) will throw off an entire design or totally corrupt it. I recently found the breakdown of a dst's file structure and it only takes 1 bit change in the wrong place to totally break a file, and one bit in the right place to actually change/mess up the artwork. The older the computer/hardware the more likely you will get corrupted files especially using older media like floppies and older harddrives.

I've actually run into digitizing software that under a specific load (often auto backups) That can somehow accidentally trigger code changes in a file during digitizing. (note I multitask and digitizing software hates that)

Robert Young's picture

have not posted here for a bit... BUT what do ANY OF YOU think about this for a left chest? seriously a left chest. oh do the class markings get included? just want to ask.

I mean who in any part of our profession actually would consider this OK on a left chest... just answered my own question with the word "profession"

Attachment: 

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

client sends in a pretty involved Religious design for the back of a jacket and wants us to add lettering below. I send back asking about size they would like the finished piece and if the large shield area could be done in applique as well as which font would be preferred (one line, two lines. arched or straight)

response was to send an image of the back side of a man wearing a vest with a TOTALLY different logo on it.

So just had to guess and quoted with 1 line of lettering about 10 inches tall and 9 inches wide with no applique. Just guessing as NONE of the questions were answered.

I cannot tell from the image what size vest the man is wearing? It looks like screen print . I do not know the font nor how the client would like it placed. I do not know about applique.

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

client: "This logo the outline on the left is pulling away from the fill. Can you totally redo this" ? totally redo? this is a simple edit to compensate, no problem. start from scratch? then come to find out by the "left" they meant the left on the hat as you wear it... which for the actual design is really the "right" side/ arggg

the rain in Spain... lol

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

same design original instructions: "art: add \"Diocese of Corpus Christi\" at bottom of logo Location: Full Back / Vest"

so we do the back and forth as I stated in my last post and this is what I get back:

"3\" W x 3\" L; Chest for the logo itself"
AND
"and Diocese of Corpus Christi embroidered on the upper back going all the way across. Use your best judgement. And i\'m not sure what applique is"

I need some coffee

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

client had a design with 90 dots.. she wanted each and every one to be trimmed. they were in two concentric circles so I thought hey why not just enlarge each dot a bit and have 1 connecting stitch between each, no trimming other than between the two circles and even that we could hide. NOPE HAVE to have all the trims. I advised strongly that your machine operator could either pull out all their hair OR quit. NOPE do what I say.

OK. no problem for digitizing

Call back... WHY DOES THIS DESIGN TAKE SOOOOO LONG TO SEW?!?! geez you tell me. watch the machine

start slowly.. sew wind down ... activate trimmers, trim... move start slowly... sew... wind down... activate trimmers, trim.. move NINETY TIMES!!! I really do not know why a 6000 stitch hat design should take FOREVER!? lol (did I mention it was on a hat)

maybe her client should screen? or our client should learn a little about the medium they sell?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

client wants to know why the tagline is sewing through the logo.! I am sorry sir but when I look at the design it is under the design not on top , hence "tagline" he calls up design on his computer and also the tagline is Under the design. machine jump? operator hitting magical buttons? just seems odd that the machine would move up .75 inch all by itself. Any ideas?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

AlisonB wrote:

Fine - I shall distort your file accordingly, and charge an editing fee later.

they just hire people to sell while never trying to teach them the actual process of embroidery. Show me an embroidery salesperson who can actually run a machine? Actually I think we would be surprised by the percentage of Digitizers that cannot run an embroidery machine!

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

Client has a design that is 4.5 inches wide and wants to know what changes would be required to reduce it to 3.5 wide. We advise what would need to change and they approve. All we had to do was delete some really small lettering and then reduce the rest.

Client sends it back writing.. in all Caps : "YOU DID NOT FILL IN THE BALL IN THE 7 UP LOGO"

Yes. THAT IS CORRECT.... we also did not convert this to a 17 color, add a large filled rectangle behind everything, nor rotate the design 42.75674 degrees to the left.. WHY you ask? Because we were not INSTRUCTED to.... arggg

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

Client: "design is sewing wacky please fix"

Me: Please send an image of your sewout and I am sure we can fix

Client: JUST FIX IT!

Me: sorry I am at the auto repair shop telling them that my truck is acting "WACKY"... so bear with me, take a "chill pill" until they fix the wackiness so I can get back to my computer to take care of your "wacky" design.

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young wrote:
wow, that is a tough one. Depends on how "good" the client is I suspect? Maybe split the difference and each eat half? Or let it all go and chalk it up to "goodwill"? Let us know how this works out for you.

Client paid with some adjustments, glad it solved!

Steve
Embroidery Digitizier and Color Separation
20 Years Experience
(Price : 10 USD Flat OR 1.5 USD/1000 Stitches)
First Two designs Free to Try
gnizitigid@gmail.com

Robert Young's picture

Today a long time client (12 years) is upset about a quote I gave... not the pricing but the stitchcount. They are arguing about the stitchcount. I break it down piece by piece.. they still dont believe it.

Here is my thought, not told to them of course, but shared here with my peers in a "safe zone" only to vent: 12 years... so they then have averaged 15 designs per year with us. so their knowledge of embroidery is 1 design every 3 something weeks? same 12 years I averaged 10,237 quotes per year. 197 per week, or about 40 per day on average. am I off base thinking I have the experience to quote a left chest within acceptable limits?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

client sends in a 5 color school mascot logo with bordered and shadowed and highlighted lettering and says please quote this 1 color for a canvas bag.

no size given... and no instructions as to what parts of the design should be sewn. I mean with an involved mascot and lettering like that you could do it at least 8 different ways as a 1 color. outline only lettering? outline only with the shadow included? outline only with the highlights included? solid lettering ,no outline... , solid lettering with a gap in each for the highlights... etc... on and on.

client comes back and says :"you are correct... please do as a 2 color design"

argggggg

still no size... and WHICH two colors of the 5?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

today client sends in a quote for a design to only be 1 inch tall...OK. "do you offer 60wt thread?" what is that they ask. well it is thinner thread that would allow more detail in this 1 inch design. "How is 60wt thinner than our 40wt?" they ask..... uh well back in the day you would take a pound of cotton (yes that is how old I am...Also being there for George Washington's so called chopping down the cherry tree) and you would pull the cotton into thread... 40 ft/yds/mm lol whatever would be 40 wt.. put it to 60 ft/yds/mm lol whatever and you have 60 wt... same pound but stretched longer so prolly thinner , no? again does anyone learn about what they sell?? embroidery not rocket science!!

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

so come to find out the "sewing" is what they see on the computer screen.... OH YES that is a perfect representation of how your fabric, your machine, your thread, your operator, etc will create the actual embroidery.

Goes back to clients wanting their digitizer to send them (or at least show them) a sewout. HECK I WOULD LOVE to do that ... provided then there could be NO edits! obviously that makes no sense. the best we can hope for in that instance is at least they understand the design digitizing is not completely horrible... but when factoring in all the above mentioned variables is it really? does any of it really matter?

To me, not at all.. ALL that matters is what you produce with your expert or limited abilities with the tools you have chosen to use. (stop blaming the digitizer as the only culprit ) just sayin

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

well it IS a numbers game... more clients than the average bear means more odd stuff.

SO: today client wants to know why we cannot digitize for 1/8 inch tall lettering to be super crisp and legible. WELL VIRGINIA possibly, maybe, might...BUT it would require some special machine operator with knowledge of needles and thread weight and machine speeds. WHICH YOU DO NOT HAVE. she shows me an example... IT WAS WOVEN!!! not embroidered.

for those that are confused. look at a tag on your jacket or pants or some shirts... YEP they are legible because they are WOVEN.. not embroidered. with 75 or much smaller weights. You "professional that you are" are obviously an idiot.

color me purple \
please! lol

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

OK this one is kinda cool... client wants to do an applique but with a rouched effect. must be a very small batch because of the operator time but sounds pretty innovative! So you sew a line , they fold the fabric then you sew another, etc. then when all the rouching is complete you do a satin border around the entire rectangle and then sew the design on top of it all. HOW CREATIVE! hopefully they will allow me access to a pic or two,

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

ah 2020 Client sends in two revisions last night.. not new punches, just simple revisions.... so I understand them CALLING WANTING TO KNOW WHAT IS TAKING SO LONG... foot tapping. lol

Very simple changes , could actually be done on ANY embroidery machine, no prob.... one design is from 2011 and the other from 2006. HOW COOL that our client, their client and us are still all in business to do this!! I was just surprised to have a client this long and to hear them upset about timing on revisions.

relax it is just embroidery.

you have had the opportunity with the design for 14 years... WE? oh one time... get the pic?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young wrote:
client sends in 15 rush orders... upset they cannot have them back within an hour or so! I explain we will do them one at a time in whichever order they choose... and send each one as they are completed. Then wants to know why should a RUSH fee be applied then?

WELL, because we are STOPPING work on all other designs until these 15 are complete... so yes, you will pay the additional fees. We have to then field calls from others who are wanting their jobs as well.

Does this make sense?

and WHY do you have 15 designs that are rushes? improper planning on your part does not an emergency make for me. sorry.

15 rush designs. My goodness, what a dolt. I had a customer place an order for some apparel last week. I gave her an estimated day or arrival and she called three days later asking me why I hadn't finished her order -- as if I had direct control over shipping and customs regulations. Fools.

Robert Young's picture

ltpemb wrote:
Also files can get corrupted over time, (a single failed or missing bit (a 1 or a 0) will throw off an entire design or totally corrupt it.

WHAT you mean my files stored on Bernoulli may be compromised? What if they change a 0 to a 1.5? lol AH I do miss the old DIGIFAX machines. (before email) OH and the Facit and winding all those paper tapes back up brings back memories. Now I don't go as far back as Schiffle but have seen them in action. Wonder if I could get one of THOSE designs altered for Free? what is the statute of limitations? Customer service, yes... but after 9 years are you really a customer anymore?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

simple, or so I thought design was entered for us to digitize.

after the fact here was the client response:

Our customer has a few changes needed to be done on this file. - The blue fill in the logo to be increased. Also, can we change the fill type. The stitch distance needs to be shorter. It was asked to have the thread direction go in a left to right (9 o\'clock to 3 o\'clock) direction. - The fill in the yellow Triangle to be increased. It was asked to have the thread direction go in a diagonal direction (10 o\'clock to 4 o\'clock) direction. - The fill in the yellow crescent to be increased. It was asked to have the thread direction go in a diagonal direction (8 o\'clock to 2 o\'clock) direction. - We need a small border around the logo to finish off the edge. Where the yellow triangle and crescent the border color needs to be yellow. Please create the border as its own embroidery stop. We may not want to embroider it depending on the look.

these are pretty specific instructions..... wonder why they were not presented with the order?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young wrote:
so if a 17 inch tall design is 90,000 stitches then reducing that to 15 inches tall should be 79,500 stitches. simple math as satins at this size would stay satins not convert to running...etc. 90 times 15 divided by 17

seriously? simple 7th grade math. or nowadays a phone app lol

these are grown a adults selling something they really know nothing about NOR are they seemingly even trying to learn.

Of course then HOW would they learn? Our industry is reverting to "cottage" more and more each year. Magazines that once were became pamphlets then completely disappeared... trade shows have been much smaller ... Competitions to give creative outlet and learning opportunities are pretty extinct

YouTube is an opportunity but very few are trying it.

any thoughts?

Unfortunately yes I have many thoughts...
And its not just in Digitizer level its in the Embroidery and Contract Embroidery level.

Maybe its just me seeing a trend before it hits maybe its my area seems to be ahead of everyone for some reason.

1. Outsourcing to bad overseas digitizers with stolen software has cause a distrust. So industry practice is blame the digitizer.

2. Websites like that which will not be named have created the 1 price rule which is basically they try to dictate the price and no setup and etc... these sites end up downgrading quality expectations while promoting only the good reviews. Those remaining that have Higher expectations start demanding those expectations for bare minimum price.

2. The Embroidery industry is hitting another oversaturation dumb wave.
The first wave came from tons of people at home who buy a machine or two and may be really smart and good and think they can make a business out of a single head. But have no clue how to run a business or how to price and undersell just to get the order till they go broke.
The 30 odd people in a county doing that just stole fair business from people who know what they are doing as a business. So they not only undersell and go out of business and then decent businesses go under from the loss. That left a gap in service for people.
Now we hit the second wave. There are plenty of companies out there that were selling or occasionally selling embroidery and outsourcing it but actually had no idea how to embroirer are now getting a lot more embroidery orders (Screen Printers, marketing, promo etc.) And you get this thought where companies think "how hard can this be?" and buy up equipment to take it on in house... now there is even more vicious competition... where instead of outsourcing You take it all on and suddenly you just put yourself and your contractor out of business. All these companies that KNOW what they are doing are falling apart cause everyone thinks its easy. People that actually have the skill are getting kicked left and right and just drop out entirely. Hell I am considering selling it all and getting out.

Basically you have entered the new level of DUMB NEWBIE that just bought a $80,000 eight head and has no idea how to run it right. BUT THOSE PAYMENTS CATCH UP. so they start panicing and blame anyone but themself or just blame themself and start yelling at everyone cause they wont take the time to learn. Seen it happen so many times

Robert Young's picture

ok this is one of the first on this thread but here we are and it STILL happens!?? Design quoted 1 color. Quote accepted. Digitizing done. Client: "why are the white parts not filled with thread?" Me: "UH it was quoted 1 color not 2 and accepted that way?" Client: "White is NOT a color!"
Oh Honey do you ride the bus or put your lunch in a paper bag?

DO you have white THREAD? do you thread your machine with such? IF WHITE were not a color in embroidery why do we pay money for it?

Thoughts??

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

do you realize how many files we have to give for a 2.5 million stitch design!?!?! we educate or just sew it here. This November will mark my 30th anniversary of ONLY living off digitizing and embroidery Machine and Hand Graduate of the Royal ... OHH LA LA lol

I feel bad for the industry .. sorry. maybe I am stupid (probably) but to me 30 years ago I met SO many people that were passionate Today.. seems like just sales people that have NO CLUE about the medium.

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

jacket back quoted at 47,000 stitches, once completed (before any changes that hopefully but could be wanted after sewout) the design actually has 45,936. Client is UPSET that my quote was so far off! (10 inch wide jacket back) 98 percent is not close enough? lol

BTW look at the file on your computer.. then look at it on your embroidery machine.. NEITHER will match our 45,936.... does not work that way you M.....

Now I can understand if the design came to way MORE than the quote as that could interfere with your pricing and machine time.. but 2 percent under quote (depending on viewing item and how they count jump stitches, etc) and you are upset? ok, ok, i will refund the 2.00 happy now?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

design MUST be 1.624 inches wide. again... let me think about thread and needles and fabrics and digitizing and operator and machine...etc.... .oo4 thousandths HAS TO BE ACHIEVED..... is the embroidery going to Space? THAT I get... or for any MEDICAL procedure? THAT I also get... but embroidery on a HAT? seriously??! Calm down sales peoples. just calm down. 1.6 is perfectly fine.. heck 1.5 would work... OH maybe even 1.7!!?!

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

seriously you could sew it in purple using an underwater embroidery machine using plastic needles whilst orbiting Mars and as fascinating as all that is I personally just want to know size of design wanted and whether any voids in the design are to be thread or left open for the fabric to show and will you pay your bill and what is for lunch.

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Deep breaths, Robert, deep breaths.
I think because you have so many clients that you pick up more of the clueless ones as well. It does seem that they come in groups tho'.

Robert Young's picture

today a client wants to know why her design sewed in white when she wanted it in blue? So Could I , Would I , please redigitize it to sew in white. Seriously? I will need the wings off a grasshopper, 2 ladybugs, eye of newt and the tongue of a purple salamander and possibly when the moon is "just so" and I learn to spin as a dervish wearing a blue organza ensemble it just might work!!! but then again if Saturn is in the wrong position it might possibly turn the entire operation caddywhampus and the design might possibly maybe sew in bright yellow!! Do you want to take that chance?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

gnizitigid wrote:
Hi Robert

My one of client have new boss, and she says that she will send invoice to new boss and let us see if he pay, payments are less like $70 for 4 vectors and 3 digitizings, but a little concerned now

What would the new boss have to do with debt incurred by the company? Were those orders NOT for the company but for the private use / profit of the old boss? (the only excuse I can think of why they would hesitate paying?)

BUT, I have had clients sell their businesses and the new buyer tell us that all invoices owed by the previous owner were null and void. So when money is involved (even relatively small amounts) people can be weird.

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young wrote:
client wants to know why the tagline is sewing through the logo.! I am sorry sir but when I look at the design it is under the design not on top , hence "tagline" he calls up design on his computer and also the tagline is Under the design. machine jump? operator hitting magical buttons? just seems odd that the machine would move up .75 inch all by itself. Any ideas?

Sounds to me like a corrupted file transfer or export or something. If he exported the file or loaded a dst via a floppy disk, (assuming he doesn't have a visual display of the file loaded at this point which is why modern machines have screens) it is possible to have bad bits on overused disks normally floppy disks transfer programs and poor disks will just cause a failure to run the program... But with these types of files... say for some reason the 5th bit of the third byte of a jump stitch somehow got transmitted as a 1 or more likely didn't get properly turned into a 0 on a overused floppy (each individual stitch are the sum total of 3 bytes of data with all but 4 bits corrilating to real world measures of movement) then you end up with 8.1mm of upward movement... That 1 bit signifies 8.1mm of movement in the y axis.

If it isn't that then it could be a format error or other*

Serial cables can also have bit failures as well and some machines may be programmed to move via calculated path instead of jump paths and may have caused an issue. (I ran into that problem before as my 4 heads throw out jump paths and decides for itself to move to the next location which caused issues on hats I was running)

Robert Young's picture

so today like this client like wanted to know like what like she could do with like an old dakota collectibles design pack like she got like from her grandma. like what???! I explained that she needed to download them on a Bernoulli drive and then plug that into a facit machine and then paper tape to make a wonderful gown for "Project Runway season 45" like that is all those are worth. like for real like.

too harsh? if so on which entity in this paragraph?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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