Interesting instructions for your digitizer

Robert Young's picture

The art has a design with a solid white rectangle with a black border on it... but since it is an image of their actual signage I do not know if you want the solid rectangle, outline only, or no rectangle. Most clients do not do solid fills behind their designs as they add considerably to the stitchcounts and are not usually needed.

Client response to my inquiry: "hi, no triangle is needed, please proceed"

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

client:

This file needs to have a break for the top \"Railroad Division\" because that will be used for the back of Mesh hats and then whole image with the top and bottom lines being same color and the middle lines text will be white, will be used for jacket sleeves. Image is to size. The arch is set up for a Richardson hat. Jacket material is Carhart denim. Hat will be the mesh back

I am glad English is my first language. imagine!???

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

new client: "explain to me WHY you are charging me for this design!?? I know you just did it 3 weeks ago for my previous boss"

Oh Honey.... did your parents have any children that lived? Or as my Dad always says: do you ride the bus or have a lunch box? (makes no sense to me... but sure stops the conversation, lol)

so what you really think I am just going to hand over any and all of the designs from your previous employer? seriously? talk about a career / company ending move! Sorry. new account closed.

Modern Embroidery Designer
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so she switched companies and was trying to steal a client from her previous employer? NOT cool!

Or? was she with the same company and her boss quit and they hired a new boss? in that case, i wouldn't charge for resending the design...

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Robert Young's picture

she switched companies and for some reason thought she had the rights to the previous designs... maybe a sales rep that moved? to me the company owns the files not the sales rep. They are either an employee or a contract for hire.

reminds me of early on in my career where we had a room that looked like a library.. rows and rows of shelves with boxes on each... each filled with a roll of paper tape. Or so we thought! A sales rep had been planning on moving to greener pastures for a few months and had systematically removed the tapes he wanted from the boxes and taken them.

so we go to run a repeat order and Voila! the box is empty! the PITA of having to re digitize those on a Melco Digitrac! No editing, just tape splicing or redoing that part.

Wow that sales rep really hurt the company I worked for.

Modern Embroidery Designer
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wow, yeah, that's not cool. i think i probably would have let the original company know what she was up to.

paper tapes? dang, you're old! hahaha i never had to deal with the paper tapes. started with software in 1996. my mother tho started doing embroidery with one of those ancient pantograph machines. she used to make "templates" by carving into a block of something that looked like linoleum.

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Robert Young's picture

I LOVE clients with a sense of humor! I mean I know the holidays are here, end of year, tax prep, etc... lots of stress. BUT today a client asked for a quote:

"Also, a rough guestimate for stitch count so I can know how many children I need from the customer as payment for sewing!"

amazing!!

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

Client: " Will be sowed on sweat band 2 inches wide"

not a bad idea maybe?? moisten the band and put in seeds? like strips for tomatoes or other plants? seeds in between parts of the embroidery could be cool! We have not had a major innovation in embroidery in quite a while.. what? 3D? so this could be the next great thing!!

Modern Embroidery Designer
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A question to digitizers
I have tried Digitizing and I have learn a lot in the past 2-3 months, however my main question is this, How do you guys remain patient during digitizing. I rather walk(I'm fat) than sit down and digitize random logos, and yes that what i do. I digitize random logos

Robert Young's picture

ayugup wrote:
A question to digitizers
I have tried Digitizing and I have learn a lot in the past 2-3 months, however my main question is this, How do you guys remain patient during digitizing. I rather walk(I'm fat) than sit down and digitize

Firstly I think this thread helps... the comedy factor in some of these requests keeps us interested and really gives us some opportunity to teach if the stars and moon line up just so. Being able to post to my peers and not directly make any client feel "less than" helps especially when feedback or advice is given.

Patience? well, that depends on the day and the time of that day. 6 O'clock in the morning I am pretty easy going. by 3 in the afternoon maybe not so much. Friday afternoons vs Monday mornings? you get the idea. Normal in most professions i would think.

Have you tried those Standing Desks? no chair as you stand up in front of the workstation. That would keep your blood flowing especially if you walk back and forth to the machine/kitchen/bathroom/outside garden/ etc.

Lastly. (almost) Maybe you are not a digitizer. Do not force yourself to do something you do not love to do. Work on the embroidery side or the sales side or the creative art side?

Have you ever read a book and looked up only to realize you missed a TV show or your dinner time? You got lost in the story you were reading and before you know it time accelerated. That is, to me, the feeling a digitizer has when they are in "the zone"

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

already this morning a client is upset with me for being a "smarty pants"

I used the word: parallelogram

well that is what it is...apple. pear... I mean if it is what it is why not use the word that tells you what it is?

Do you want a digitizer who is a dummy? I would think you would want someone to help you with your misspellings and offer creative solutions to potential issues in embroidery?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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I'm not a digitzier, But i would like to digitize random logos to boost business. Truly, the only business i get from some of these logos is when the client is not paying, and i don't want to stuck my money in it. The customer doesn't want to pay setup fee, but they want the coolest thing done.
In the past few months, I have digitized about 8-9 logos for myself, and the customer only likes 2 of them, although all of them look pretty nice.

Robert Young's picture

ayugup wrote:
I'm not a digitzier, But i would like to digitize random logos to boost business. Truly, the only business i get from some of these logos is when the client is not paying, and i don't want to stuck my money in it..

stop bottom feeding?

this thread is about interesting instructions and most of those come from clients who have NO CLUE about embroidery. they are paper pushers who will not be around 3 years from now. sorry, I really believe that... whether they are sales reps or actual owners of new shops.

They, like you appear to be, are bottom feeding, chasing the nearest nickle.. not the future 1000.00 bills@! That is very short sighted to me.

Modern Embroidery Designer
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ayugup wrote:
I have digitized about 8-9 logos for myself, and the customer only likes 2 of them, although all of them look pretty nice.

not only are you not going to make money on the designs that aren't great, you're going to lose embroidery work as well.

great digitizing sells more embroidery. i've had SOOO many customers call saying that they've been using cheap designs and are over it and are finally willing to pay more for great digitizing. they're usually so amazed that they ran the whole design without a thread break. constant thread breaks are NOT supposed to be normal!

i feel bad that they've been suffering through such crappy designs, but its really nice when they're so appreciative!

that said...i had an 'interesting instructions for your digitizer' the other day. somebody called and said "how far away are you?" i waited for the 'from XXX'. but it never came. i actually had to ask 'how far away from where?'

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Robert Young's picture

digidana wrote:

that said...i had an 'interesting instructions for your digitizer' the other day. somebody called and said "how far away are you?" i waited for the 'from XXX'. but it never came. i actually had to ask 'how far away from where?'

your website clearly states your address on multiple pages.... just sayin. lol

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

I know it is the Holiday RUSH time... but come on. already this morning 2 clients are confused. last week they each sent in a quote. I quoted with the changes that needed to happen to make it work (both had filled areas with small lettering inside, they wanted the lettering to be a reversal, I advised in the quote that those letters would be sewn.. in color to match fabric if you like, but a reversal in embroidery at that size was not possible)

quotes were both approved

both orders completed this morning .... both sent back with upset client remarks.

WHY DID YOU APPROVE THE QUOTE AND NOT READ OUR COMMENTS? as a digitizer what you tell us is paramount...otherwise we may end up being part of ruined garments.

COMMUNICATION. after 300 plus designs on our website each I would think you know how it works. maybe a new sales rep, but still then they should have trained them.

sorry.

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

client: " I have change this to a 3 color and the 4 color would be the white. Sorry for all the confusion. Please let me know if this makes for since"

so does the white sew?? (the actual question I had asked for digitizing purposes)

client is in Virginia.... only say this because of the way the writing was done.

Modern Embroidery Designer
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A question to digitiziers
How do you guys digitize small details, meaning if i put satin stitch on top of fill stitch( in computer screen it looks perfect), however if i embroider on pique shirts, it moves.
What can i do to make it look perfect.
Also do you guys digitize and run the logo before sending the sample. Just curious. and if so I can send you guys my logo, if you guys want to run it on embroidery machine.

ayugup wrote:
A question to digitiziers
How do you guys digitize small details, meaning if i put satin stitch on top of fill stitch( in computer screen it looks perfect), however if i embroider on pique shirts, it moves.
What can i do to make it look perfect.
Also do you guys digitize and run the logo before sending the sample. Just curious. and if so I can send you guys my logo, if you guys want to run it on embroidery machine.

for small details, if the details are 1.3 mm wide or less i use a running stitch. details 1.3-6 mm i use a satin stitch. make sure you use underlay. you have to learn about compensation and the push and pull of the machine on the garment.

i sewed everything out for years...maybe a decade? but i've been digitizing full-time for 21.5 years now and rarely sew them out.

i can take a look at the design if you like and give you some pointers...

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Robert Young's picture

ayugup wrote:
however if i embroider on pique shirts, it moves.
What can i do to make it look perfect.
.

simple answer is sew the design out. what is on screen should NOT look perfect... letters should be all different heights and fill patterns should have weird tops and bottoms. sewing will teach you the compensations needed per size and material type.

we advise our clients to NOT judge our work off the computer generated pdf because it shows the push/pull compensations that we actually digitized on purpose.

YET some do not understand and need "interesting instructions to your client" training. lol

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

client sends in an image of a tractor trailer rig. all outline only but is it? so ANY digitizer must ask... hey does any of the white inside the truck get included as thread or is this an outline only design? (seriously when ANY element of a design is the same color as the background on the art is it really that difficult to think... HEY the digitizer might need to know if that is embroidered or to be left open for the fabric to show through?)

Client then sends in another image of a 4 color design already embroidered. "no we want it to look like this" ?!?!?!?!

how the HECK would we have gotten that from a black and white outline only design????

Modern Embroidery Designer
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ha! i ask that question 500 times a day it feels like. when i ask i usually include my recommendation. like, if its a tractor trailer for left chest with a bunch of detail, i'd recommend filling it so i can outline with running stitches. even if they stitch it out the same color as the shirt so it looks open.

that's another thing i try to remember to tell all new customers...if they have existing embroidery they are trying to match, send me a pic. there are 100 different ways to digitize some designs.

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Robert Young's picture

yeah, those are two GREAT questions to always ask... also what SIZE? hats and left chest I get but when you are sewing a jacket back or blanket or whatever non standard item... please give your digitizer a SIZE.

Earlier this year I posted on this thread about the lady that ordered a design for a quilt... I asked SIZE? she gave me the SIZE of the quilt!!?!

Would also be nice to know if the client has the ability/inclination to use thinner threads? That really helps us in quoting something with small lettering because we then know we can go smaller without issue for them.

Modern Embroidery Designer
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jacket backs and front full chest i'm ok with sizing, but for things like the blankets, bags or aprons i always ask a size because they can be so wide ranging.

i always just plan for 60 wt thread and make recommendations for that.

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Robert Young wrote:
Client today: "Can you revise this file at all where there is just the running stitch outline to make it a bit for substantial possibly?"

drunk email? did it come on new years eve?? sounds like they want a thicker outlining?

digitizing...since 1996. dixiedesigns.net

Robert Young's picture

adam smith wrote:
Digitizing: each left chest or cap just $15. Jacket back $30 to $50

Vector: Starting from $10 and will not go up more Than $40.

THESE are "Interesting instructions" your client gave you?? They tell you what your pricing is to be? That is a new one on me! Good luck with that as you must have some very difficult clients. Sorry

(I get it, they posted in the wrong thread... just thought it funny. not picking on them) But it would not surprise me IF those actually were instructions given to a digitizer!

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

yesterday a client argued with me about my stitch count estimate for filling a 10 inch circle.

Simple equation for many young students. A=(pi)times (r)squared. All you as a digitizer has to do is figure out how many stitches you think you need to fill an inch? 1000? 1200? 700? pick that number and in this case multiply it by 53.5 So if you think you need 1000 stitches per square inch then that would mean 53,500 stitches. They argued that a square inch should only be 350 stitches in 40 wt.

I know it depends on the material and underlay. but 350 to me would mean NO underlay and a density less than half what full coverage on paper would be and a stitch length of 6.5mm

thoughts?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

me: quoted 4 inches wide with all black on the art as the fabric showing through. (background was also black so who knows if it was to be embroidered or not... cannot guess so offer least stitchcount option up front)

client: WHAT FABRIC? this is being sewn on hats.

me: OH please tell me what the hats your client has chosen are made of? cardboard, plastic, metal? We really havent had any new products in this industry since 3D foam so am VERY interested to learn if something new is out there finally!!

I know, I am an Ar@% but seriously WHAT FABRIC ???

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

client wants back of hat embroidery to have upper case letters at 12/16ths of an inch tall. let the rest fall where they may. OK first isn't 12/16ths the same as 3/4? to make things simple.

second. that makes the lettering 7 inches wide over the arch of a hat. Do we smash the letters to make it fit? or do we do it as 6/8ths tall on the upper case (lol)

After 29years of ONLY digitizing I am still amazed that sales persons do not actually LOOK at the art at the size requested. My goodness how many clarifications that could stop.

Clarifications are not bad. Communication is good. But by the time we go back and forth to finalize a layout NOW the order is a RUSH and they tend to blame us. So should we have just followed the instructions, played stupid, and given them a 7 inch wide design? NO because then they question OUR professionalism. UH but isn't this supposed to be a "marriage" of two professionals trying to help an end user?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

today is only Tuesday ... already this week have a client that does not know what a "satin stitch" is.
another that does not know what it means to "merrow" a patch... I know it is a brand name of machine but for 30 years that is what it was called, no?

and lastly a client who did not understand "running stitch lettering" we always say think of a TM or R mark. still not getting through.

Merrow I get for new clients... but the other two? These are all people selling embroidery to end users and you do not have a list of common vocabulary to use both for the end user but also important to use for the digitizer/embroiderer ?

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Robert Young's picture

instructions:

100% polyester woven shell bonded to a water-resistant film insert and a 100% polyester microfleece lining 92/8 poly/spandex woven shell bonded to a water-resistant film insert and a 100% polyester microfleece lining (Heathers) 1000MM fabric waterproof rating 1000G/M2 fabric breathability rating Zip-through cadet collar with chin guard Reverse coil zippers Front zippered pockets Open cuffs and hem

ok... kept waiting for anything the client actually wanted done with the design. simple left chest logo. lol

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young's picture

today a client asked: "could I just run my thread tensions tighter to make 40wt thread act like 60wt?"

Interesting concept to which I had no sure answer to. On theory I guess that would be possible but in practical terms highly unreliable/consistent

why not just buy 60wt? OR take dye and color your bobbins and have 75 wt? Too much labor for the return no?

Thoughts?

Modern Embroidery Designer
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Robert Young wrote:
today a client asked: "could I just run my thread tensions tighter to make 40wt thread act like 60wt?"

Interesting concept to which I had no sure answer to. On theory I guess that would be possible but in practical terms highly unreliable/consistent

why not just buy 60wt? OR take dye and color your bobbins and have 75 wt? Too much labor for the return no?

Thoughts?

The amount of tension required to make 40 run like 60 would collapse 90% of fabrics.... If you designed the file around 60wt thread than the densities of the thread would cause friction thread breaks. If you just crank up the upper tensions to try to stretch and run 40wt like 60wt you also have to adjust bobbin tensions... and by that point you are talking tensions that would pucker tackle twill fabrics beyond hiding.

Robert Young wrote:
today a client asked: "could I just run my thread tensions tighter to make 40wt thread act like 60wt?"

Interesting concept to which I had no sure answer to. On theory I guess that would be possible but in practical terms highly unreliable/consistent

why not just buy 60wt? OR take dye and color your bobbins and have 75 wt? Too much labor for the return no?

Thoughts?

As for not just buying 60wt or 75wt thread... In both retail and contract embroidery businesses, you are usually talking about 4-12 cones to be able to run the order. (assuming 4-12 heads) which ends up eating into profit margin if it wasn't accounted for

Not only that but you add additional needle change out time (Generally you use 75/11 BP for 40wt. where as 65/9 BP is used for 60wt.) Assume 2-4 min. to both change out and re-thread each needle. That adds 8-16min to an order for a 4 head, and 24-48 min on a 12 head.

So for example... Currently I have 8 heads (2x4heads) the cost of 60wt thread is usually $3.50 for a mini cone. x8 is $28 before shipping/etc. Lets pretend that I have a hourly production "price" of roughly $100 that is applied across all 8 of my heads to cover overhead, employees, profit margin, standard material usage, software/machine payments etc...

Then lets pretend it takes me 3min per head/needle. x8 = 24min. 24min/60min= 0.40 hrs. 0.40 hrs*$100 = $40

$40+$28 = $68 add another $6.00 for shipping, $2.00 in needles. You are at $76 worth of material and labor costs.

On a contract order using 8 heads.... a small stitchcount of less than 4000 stitches can take only an hr. and at an hourly cost of 100 If I have to invest $76 just to run a 100 order I just lost money

Now once you have it as a standard part of your operations you can factor it into your "standard production materials average cost budget". If its a SPECIFIC color and not just white or black the odds of needing that wt of that color is so slim you almost always just have to eat the cost every time someone wants a specific color.

Now add and multiply that by 75wt.
Now add and multiply that by Rayon/polyester.
Now add and multiply that by brands.

Basically in order to make money on a contract level (or even a fiercely tight profit margin competitive retail level) Managing thread costs is incredibly important.

Robert Young's picture

"Basically in order to make money on a contract level (or even a fiercely tight profit margin competitive retail level) Managing thread costs is incredibly important."

blah blah blah

sorry when I started in 1989 there were 9 embroidery shops in San Antonio... none had less than 50 heads.... Today there are HUNDREDS of "shops" mostly ran out of a spare bedroom or on the kitchen table with 1 to 4 heads. So do not suggest they cannot spend the extra to buy proper materials. sorry.

what they just have settled for "good enough" "acceptable enough to get paid" embroidery?

If they consider "quality" as a pride of theirs then they will invest in the necessary threads, needles, backings, toppings, etc. When is the last time you actually went into an embroidery shop.. they have no clue what they have, they do not usually do matrix or X/R charts, etc.

if it is your passion then you will do whatever it takes.. .if not you will be cheap because you are only in it for the money. (not you personally, just in general)

Modern Embroidery Designer
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